[tome]

> Those systems are predicated on denotational semantics, which is a formalization that identifies a computation with the function it computes ... rather than view the computation as built up from functions

You know there's operational semantics too, right? Operational semantics typically describes the behaviour of your program as a state machine, especially the small step type of operational semantics.

[pron]

Of course. But I was talking about FP there, and, I think, operational semantics must be embedded in FP. In the state machine view, operational semantics are simply a refinement SM of the denotational semantic (which could be also specified as a nondeterministic SM)

[tome]

> I was talking about FP there, and, I think, operational semantics must be embedded in FP.

I'm not sure what you mean. Are you claiming that operational semantics is somehow a poor fit for FP?

[pron]

I was being vague and imprecise. Obviously, any semantics is semantics of a language, and every language has its own perfectly fine operational semantics. I think that FP is a non-optimal first-choice for operational reasoning; let's call it that.

But while I have your attention, let me try to put the finger on two concrete problem areas in the typed-PFP reasoning. Now, I'm not saying that this isn't useful for a programming language; I am saying that it is a poor choice for reasoning about programs. I think that FP has to discrete "jumps" between modes, that are simply unnecessary for reasoning and do nothing but complicate matters (again, they may be useful for other reasons):

The first is the jump between "plain" functional code and monadic code. Consider an algorithm that sorts list of numbers using mergesort. The program could be written to use simple recursion, or, it could be written using a monad, with the monadic function encoding just a single step. Those two programs are very different but they encode the very same algorithm! The first may use a more denotational reasoning, and the second a more operational one. In TLA, there is no such jarring break. You can specify an algorithm anywhere you want on a refinement spectrum. Each step may be just moving a single number in memory, splitting the array, all the way to sorting in one step. The relationship between all these different refinement levels is a simple implication:

  R1 => R2 => R3

where R3 may be completely denotational and not even algorithmic as in:

   done => result = Sorted(input)

(assuming some operator Sorted).

The second discrete jump is between the program itself and the types. I was just talking to an Agda-using type theorist today, and we noted how a type is really a nondeterministic program specifying all possible deterministic programs that can yield it. This is a refinement relation. Yet, in FP, types are distinct from programs (even in languages where they use the same syntax). In TLA the relationship between a "type", i.e. a proposition about a program and the program is, you guessed it, a simple refinement, i.e. simple logical implication (he figures that intermediate refinement steps are analogous to a "program with holes" in Agda). So, the following is a program that returns the maximal element in a list:

A2 ≜ done = FALSE ∧ max = 0 ∧ [](done' = TRUE ∧ max' = Max(input))

but it is also the type (assuming dependent types) of all programs that find the maximum element in a list, say (details ommitted):

A1 ≜ done = FALSE ∧ max = {} ∧ i = 0 ∧ [](IF i = Len(input) THEN done' = TRUE ELSE (input[i] > max => max' = input[i]) ∧ i' = i + 1)

Then, A1 => A2, because A1 is a refinement of A2.

So two very central concepts in typed-PFP, namely monads and types are artificial constructs that essentially just mean refinements. Not only is refinement a single concepts, it is a far simpler concept to learn than either monads or types. In fact, once you learn the single idea of an "action" in TLA, which is how state machines are encoded as logic (it is not trivial for beginners, but relatively easy to pick up), refinement is plain old familiar logical implication.

So I've just removed two complicated concepts and replaced it with a simple one that requires little more than highschool math, all without losing an iota of expressivity or proving power.

[tome]

So how do you write the type "forall a. a -> a -> a" in TLA?

[pron]

That depends what it is that you want to specify: a function or a computation (i.e., a machine). In TLA+ as in "reality" computations are not functions, and functions are not computations.

We'll start with a function. It's basically `[a -> [a -> a]]` or `[a × a -> a]`. More completely (to show that `a` is abstract):

    CONSTANT a, f
    ASSUME f ∈ [a -> [a -> a]]

`CONSTANT` means that a can be anything (formally, any set)

If you want to specify a computation, that, when terminates[1] returns a result in `a`, the "type" would be `[](done => result ∈ a)` (where [] stands for the box operator, signifying "always"), or more fully:

    CONSTANT a, Input
    ASSUME Input ∈ a × a
    VARIABLES done, result
    f ≜ ... \* the specification of the computation
    THEOREM f => [](done => result ∈ a)

So the first type is purely static. A set membership. The second has a modality, which says that whenever (i.e., at any step) `done` is true, then `result` must be in `a`.

------

[1]: Let's say that we define termination as setting the variable `done` to TRUE. BTW, in TLA as in other similar formalisms, a terminating computation is a special case of a non-terminating one, one that at some finite time stutters forever, i.e., doesn't change state, or, formally <>[](x' = x), or the sugared <>[](UNCHANGED x) namely eventually x is always the same (<> stands for diamond and [] for box; for some reason HN doesn't display those characters)

[tome]

Actually, I've thought of something that will be an even better example. You mentioned "reduce" here

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11910858

Could you link to its implementation?

[tome]

Are those actually polymorphic? It seems like you've assumed a specific, concrete, a.

EDIT: On a second look, "CONSTANT" seems more like declaring a variable than requiring a concrete type.

EDIT 2: Hmm, still not completely sure about this ...