[busterarm]

I guess this is a mental failing for me here. When I think 911, I still think of the cars as they were before AWD and traction control. To me, that's when they were the most fun to drive and had fairly homicidal tendencies. That's my ideal 911.

I don't really think of the new ones because they're almost boringly pedestrian to me. Not that anyone should need to drive a dangerous car to have fun -- you don't. I just find the last decade or so (or two even?) of the 911's history to be mostly devoid of character over its competitors.

Edit: Moreover, I don't want any car to be "pleasant" to drive at high speed. That sounds just way too relaxed for that level of speed. It should be pleasant at much lower speeds, absolutely, but honestly anything above 70mph and especially 90mph should require 100% engagement. That doesn't necessitate being difficult, but still not something I want to describe as pleasant. Your grandparents could probably comfortably drive the new GT-R at 130mph in pouring rain. That should absolutely not be encouraged. I've driven at that speed in bad weather and it requires me to be hyper-alert.

[bitL]

Ahh, the ones that were oversteering unexpectedly ;-) Yes, 911 nowadays is different, as you said pedestrian. For old-skool oversteering and difficult driving you have Porsche Carrera GT now ;-) 911 is IMO much easier to drive than most US muscle cars. Lambo with its changing aerodynamics and stiff suspension literally feels like butter at very high speeds and is a terrible shaker when driving slow.

Here in Germany a Hausfrau returning from shopping drives 120mph+ easily so people here are used to a higher default speed level than in the US where you are allowed 65mph. Often when overtaking on Autobahns you drive 130mph and some nervous Porsche/AMG etc. drivers blink at you to leave the fast lane so that they can pass.

[busterarm]

It's not even so much about higher default level of speed to me. I'm used to driving quite fast.

I'm worried about physics. ΔV will kill you.

I try as much as possible to eliminate the compounding effects of things-gone-wrong. ΔV is a multiplier in an accident.

Edit/Aside: The ultimate oversteering screaming death car is the Omni GLHS. Man is that thing a hoot. But yeah, even if you don't hit them, I think that you should be able to see where the limits of a car may lie. I don't get that sense driving some of the modern "accessible" sportscars and that feeling actually makes me more nervous to drive them.

[bitL]

Ariel Atom and K1 Attack might be in that category as well ;-)