[13of40]

I think it's weird that so many people want to demonize Microsoft for snapping to a model that Apple has been using for a decade. I'm currently in one of those weeks where every time I wake up my iPad I have to click through two separate dialogs to tell it that, no, I don't want to install the updated version of iOS it downloaded without asking. Yet everyone is fine with this. I mean, except the Linux guys, I guess.

[jeremymcanally]

Yes, but now they're resorting to (IMO, at least) some dark patterns to essentially force or deceive users into an upgrade, which is not something Apple has done (yet, at least).

[LeoPanthera]

The difference is, iOS asks. You can say no.

There are plenty of people being force-upgraded to 10 who never consented.

[ksk]

>The difference is, iOS asks. You can say no.

Yeah, and then it asks again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again.. and again....

[rootbear]

I finally got around to updating my iPhone and iPad and I also found those endless nags very, very off-putting. But what MS has done is much worse, with their upgrade-by-deception tactics. I've lost all interest in Windows 10, not that I had much to begin with.

[ksk]

I have realized that these people are incompetent and can't be trusted with updates. I've neutered the update on my iphone 6s and my W10 desktop and couldn't be happier. Like I had a 4 month uptime on my W10 install till I had to install a driver for my oculus and reboot.

[hendersoon]

No, it doesn't. I'm running iOS 9.0 on my iPhone, because that's the last jailbroken version. My phone NEVER nags me to upgrade. NEVER.

Now if I plug it into my computer and run iTunes, iTunes does ask. But I don't do that very often, as there's no reason to plug your phone into a computer these days.

[ksk]

I don't believe a single word you said, and neither does anyone else.

[These links are for others viewing this thread, who don't have iPhones and haven't seen it]

http://osxdaily.com/2016/01/04/stop-ios-software-update-noti...

http://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/209498/is-there-a-w...

[yrro]

My iPad 3 nags me to install the latest iOS update every single time I unlock it.

[orbitur]

That's when you upgrade. There's no reason to stay on an older iOS.

[ksk]

>There's no reason to stay on an older iOS.

Yeah, sure buddy.. I learnt my lesson when my 4S turned into a laggy POS after updating the OS. I was forced to sell it off because it became super slow. Never going to trust Apple again.

[cm2187]

Except when the upgrades come with more nagging for Apple services.

[Spooky23]

Tell my iPad 2 that.

[orbitur]

My iPad 2 should talk to yours. It's happy with iOS 9, if a bit slow compared to my Air 2.

[13of40]

As far as I understand it, the auto upgrade happens when you have "give me recommended updates the same way I get important updates" checked in Windows Update. That isn't a default setting - you need to consent to it. Sure, maybe it was a year ago that you clicked it, and they never said a full OS version update was something that would land in that category, but it's not like they're pushing mandatory installs to everyone.

[JupiterMoon]

They just flash a dialogue up with an opt out button. Closing the dialogue is consent to go ahead with the update. Most people close those kind of annoying pop ups without reading the message. So technically MS aren't push a mandatory update - de-facto to millions of people they are though.

[PretzelFisch]

They pop up an information dlg telling you it will be upgraded. clicking x like close does nothing as it should. The lesson to learn is to not enable os auto updates, anywhere.

[cm2187]

You can't say no. It's like Windows 10 upgrade. Do you want to upgrade now or do you want to upgrade today. I don't call that leaving the option to say no.

[JoBrad]

I get asked once to update iOS. The second time, the default action is to upgrade at midnight.

[newacct23]

I don't know about iOS but I have never had a forced upgrade with a mac laptop.

[userbinator]

It's not weird, and succinctly explained in one phrase: "If I wanted the Apple way, I'd buy a Mac." People do not want Microsoft to turn into another Google nor Apple. They want MS to be different from the others, so they can actually choose what they want and not get a product that differs from other offerings by nothing more than who made it.

[cm2187]

And in my case there is the added frustration that I will have to switch to another platform which has its own problems (linux). I guess for IT professionals learning linux is a good thing anyway. But I am not an IT professional and I have little appetite to dedicate some time to relearn the basics.

[mfkp]

"Think Different"

[bluthru]

https://www.tekrevue.com/tip/disable-automatic-app-updates-m...

[comex]

Note that that's for OS X. iOS, for what it's worth, will always check for and download OS updates when certain conditions apply (connected to Wi-Fi and power), with no way to disable it short of DNS hacks - which is obnoxious. All you can do is delete already downloaded updates. And if you ever go through with the update, it's impossible to downgrade: the bootloader forbids it. Both of these are far worse than Windows.

But for all of that, it won't actually start the update without getting consent. I guess that makes a big difference.

[bluthru]

I was comparing a desktop OS (Win 10) to a desktop OS (OS X).

[comex]

Fair enough, few would buy an iPhone instead of a PC. But I consider anti-consumer behavior partially a question of ethics, not just a factor in practical buying choices; and I don't think there is a good reason to have different ethical standards for, or generally to separate in such considerations, desktop and mobile OSes, and in particular reject the idea held by some (maybe not you) that the latter are less important as general computing devices because they're for "content consumption" or whatnot. So when comparing Microsoft's behavior to Apple's, to me all their devices are relevant.

[cm2187]

I agree that Apple is becoming hostile to its users. iOS has now a level of nagging for Apple services which is similar to the cheapest PCs full of crapware. Please us Apple music. Please use Apple Pay. Please use iCloud. etc. You have to click and confirm you don't want any of that shit pretty much at every OS update. And their "do you want to update now or do you want to update today" is also unacceptable.

I just don't see how that makes it OK for microsoft to do the same.

[lazaroclapp]

> except the Linux guys

And the BSD guys, and the GNU/Hurd guys, and the ReactOS guys, and the Haiku guys, etc, etc ;) More things in heaven and earth and all that...

[robocat]

Previously we could make the choice between stable or evergreen. That choice is disappearing...

[pessimizer]

I disagree with your premise. Plenty of people demonize(d) Apple for it, too. I generally hear what Microsoft is doing with Windows 10 described as "moving to the Apple model."

[FussyZeus]

> I think it's weird that so many people want to demonize Microsoft for snapping to a model that Apple has been using for a decade.

PATENTLY false. Yes they shove the upgrade down your throat metaphorically pretty hard, it's going to appear on top of the App Store on OS X and all over the iOS one, and it will put a notification on your Settings app, but to my knowledge there is no way for iOS or OS X to initiate a system update on it's own. And we've looked into having our monitor box at work do that so we have one less thing to maintain, it isn't easy.