[foobar2020]

I believe somewhere at the core of the issue lies inadequate recognition of the critical importance and difficulty of parenthood. It's crazy expensive, eats up half of your life, and sometimes gets very unrewarding. But it's so obvious that being a parent is crucial to the society! A civilization that sacrifices reproduction over GDP is bound to disappear. Contrast with f. eg. the Muslim culture, where children are the main source of pride of the mother.

At the risk of sounding condescending (I'm not) let's thank our mothers for bringing us into this world. Well done job moms, you really are the best.

[bluecalm]

>>I believe somewhere at the core of the issue lies inadequate recognition of the critical importance and difficulty of parenthood.

I am not sure that's a problem. I've chosen to remain childless because of it and I've never ever met a person who would downplay how hard it is to raise children and not make their (and your) life miserable in the process.

>>But it's so obvious that being a parent is crucial to the society!

Well, my view is that we have way too many people. We have already taken all the land, we are polluting, cutting down forests and there are so many of us we even make the world a worse place to live for ourselves (let alone other species).

>>A civilization that sacrifices reproduction over GDP is bound to disappear.

There is a middle ground between disappearing and having way less people. Machines are coming, we don't need that many to sustain the civilization.

>>Muslim culture, where children are the main source of pride of the mother.

Yeah, and Muslim countries are overcrowded, poor and unstable (at least vast majority of them).

>>At the risk of sounding condescending (I'm not) let's thank our mothers for bringing us into this world. Well done job moms, you really are the best.

At the risk of sounding nihilist: I am not thankful and I will not bring children myself. Too much risk of them being unhappy, breathing polluted air and getting cancer. They would also use a lot of resources, produce a lot of trash and compete over ever decreasing land to build houses on.

I support people who are fit to have children (which includes resources, a good mate, mental health and ability to make them happy) but I don't think we should incentivize it today environment.

[saiya-jin]

>> Well, my view is that we have way too many people.

true, but only for quantity. quality people, meaning happy, educated, highly moral, caring, contributing to society, etc people we definitely don't have enough. you cannot guarantee to raise such a person no matter how hard you try, but you (anybody) can do your best.

[urahara]

The most amazing thing is that getting supplied with new high-quality human beings is crucial to SOCIETY, but it's mostly the FAMILY'S burden, and in most cases, the WOMAN'S one. The society needs new productive humans, but suggests that it's a woman's problem to arrange the whole thing.

[tomp]

If the father supplies money and the mother supplies childcare, the burdens are approximately equal, no?

[llamaz]

>> Muslim culture, where children are the main source of pride of the mother.

Sons* are the main source of pride