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by noamyoungerm 3679 days ago
Why aren't kids able to read text written in rows like everyone else? Programming languages just for kids seems mostly like a way to limit them.
5 comments

The first PC videogame I ever saw was a gorilla throwing a barrel at buildings. It was written in BASIC and came with our 286 back in 1989. I was really excited to learn how the monkey was drawn - out of the same ASCII blocks as everything else, obviously, but how? - and excitedly opened the file in a text editor.

It was a little overwhelming to my 7-year-old self to see just how many little subroutines and subprocesses were needed make the whole program work. It was a very complicated set of math processes, not unlike how a car engine is a very complicated set of physical processes. (I'd been helping with car repairs for a few years at this point, and rigged-up a pair of copper wires between the cable box and TV once when we only had 1 coax cable.)

Several years later, I was overjoyed to find the TI-82 calculators we were loaned in school could interpret the same BASIC commands, and happily started writing tiny utilities, competing with classmates for the coolest function, and joining debates about whether pre-programming the Quadratic Equation into a calculator counts as cheating on tests.

Despite setbacks like a lack of programming education in rural WA State in the early 1990s, that monkey throwing barrels planted the seed that made me want to write and understand software.

MSDOS 5 used to come with QBASIC. Nibbles and Gorillas were great games and they included all the source code.

I used to play Gorilla's all the time when I was a kid. That was how I learnt about angles. My Dad drew a picture for me "This is 90 degrees, This is 45 degrees" it used to sit beside the computer.

I learnt a lot about programming from the DOS environment come to think of it. Our home PC used to have a text based menu program it would boot into. In order to add a program to the menu you needed to edit it, using something like a markup language. My Dad used to sit over my shoulder and talk me through adding programs to the menu.

Oh my God. That takes me waaay back. I had totally forgotten about that.
I don't think it's about being able to read text written in rows, although if you can't see that kids aren't particularly good at that initially, then you mustn't have spent much time with kids. (Hint, they learn to "read" with picture books and then books with like 5 words on a page.)

The same reason they learn to ride a bike on one with 12 inch wheels instead of 700c. Or cook using recipes with 3 ingredients.

Simplified versions for learning are a good thing.

First they grasp the basics using something simple, then they push the boundaries of that simplified version, and then they extend to the next step up.

The same way I learn at 33 years old, by the way.

Because they aren't very good at reading yet, because they're kids. And for some reason, kids often prioritize having fun over using the most efficient representation possible.
> Because they aren't very good at reading yet, because they're kids.

I'm not sure, but I think it may be the case that the best solution for teaching children programming at the point where "they aren't very good at reading yet" is to address that problem first. You can be a kid and be good at reading. I've known several, both when I was a kid myself and now that I'm an adult.

Exactly. I "learned" QBasic when I was 5-6 and it was really exciting because it was the actual language that implemented some of the games I liked playing. Kids like to learn about the real world. They can tell when you give them something simplified and they often don't like it.
I don't recall not liking The Cat in The Hat when I was a kid just because it was a more simple version of The Ego and The Id by Sigmund Freud.

In the same vein I can see these languages as the equivalent of a picture book for programming languages.

Younger kids can't read yet.
When you're six you most likely can. And all those colorful blocks and smiling monkey-people look like something designed for one- or two-years-olds.

I was around 7 or 9 when I first saw QBasic. I definitely wasn't afraid of text at that age. The wonder of programming isn't in how it looks - it's in what it does.