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by incepted 3679 days ago
These are functions, it doesn't get any simpler than that and it doesn't require learning anything new once you know the language.

Macros are over engineered in comparison since they force the developer to learn a whole new section of the language with its own rules and own compilation lifecycle.

This is why hardly anyone uses macros these days and why most language are embracing the Groovy/Kotlin approach to writing DSL's.
2 comments
vorg 3679 days ago
I moved from Apache Groovy to Clojure for writing tests for my own software about 5 years ago. A single limited-range macro can cut out a lot of repetitive syntax of the sort found in repetitive test cases. A one-line Clojure macro can easily do the same as what it takes 50 lines of Java defining a Groovy annotation.

The small amount of time it takes to learn Clojure and get used to its syntax is well worth it. Too bad not many workplaces are willing to similarly switch from Groovy to Clojure for writing tests. They even stick with the older Groovy version 1.8. Once something works, they won't upgrade.

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sklogic 3679 days ago
> These are functions, it doesn't get any simpler than that

Simplicity of the building blocks does not affect complexity of the resulting mess of code.

Look, Brainfuck have only 8 operators. It cannot get much simpler than that. Once you learn all 8 operators no new constructs require any learning. Does it help at all? No. You're stuck at a pathetic abstraction level.

Same with your functions. They're limiting your abstraction level, therefore making it impossible to make things simple. And your DSL example shows it in quite a dramatic way - it is a horrible mess and nothing but a horrible mess. It can be somewhat handy for the users, but the implementation is plain awful.

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incepted 3679 days ago
Show us what you think is a nice DSL then, because you keep waving your hands about DSL but you're not showing a single line of code to prove your point.
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sklogic 3679 days ago
I did it many times elsewhere in this thread already.

For example, this one: http://www.moserware.com/2008/04/towards-moores-law-software...

Or Nanopass itself, not just as a tool for building DSLs, but as an example of a nice and clean DSL (of course, if it could bootstrap itself it would have been even better):

https://github.com/akeep/nanopass-framework

Or everything you can find in my github repositories (username: combinatorylogic).

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