[presidentender]

I wholeheartedly agree. The sheer number of failures that have to occur, the low level of action on the drivers' parts required to overcome the problem (put it in neutral! Use your brakes! Use your parking brakes!), the speed and intensity of the government's response, and the fact that GM is so unpopular combine to make the entire debacle suspect.

[evgen]

While it is easy to say "put it in neutral", this is not quite a simple as it once was. With the popular serpentine shift patterns on modern cars a lot of people are surprised to find that neutral is no longer just a spot on the transition path between park and drive. To take a frequently cited example, the ES350 whose stuck accelerator killed a CHP officer and his family has a shift pattern that makes getting into neutral a bit more tricky than you suggest (particularly when you are shooting down the road at over 140 feet per second.) The driver response to these incidents may factor in to some of the problems and the fact that Toyota is the company with a problem may have politicized some of the government response, but to suggest that the solution was as simple as you claim reveals a profound ignorance of the facts at hand.

[electromagnetic]

Putting into neutral isn't a necessity, any downshift in gears will increase the torque of the engine and thus decrease the maximum velocity. Even if you can't get it into neutral, getting it into 1st or 2nd will still get you slowed down to a more manageable speed.

The major failure of all automobile manufacturers is that they haven't implemented a fail safe mechanism in the event of engine failure at velocity. If they had it would literally be as simple as turning the engine off and the brakes deploying at a reasonable (IE not maximum) pressure.

The fact of the matter is that every vehicle except consumer automobiles fail safe from aeroplanes to tractor trailers (power failure leads to de-pressurizing of the air compressor and the brakes apply harder as the air level decreases). Toyota shouldn't be being hauled up, they all should be for risking civilian lives. IMO you accept certain risks when you pilot an aircraft, train, or transportation vehicle, however these are all typically far safer than the vehicles readily handed to consumers. That just is not right.

[erso]

Getting it into a lower gear would mean the engine's current RPM is at a level low enough for the transmission to allow you to shift it into a lower gear. You can throw an automatic into "1" at 80mph and it won't comply.

[cookiecaper]

I think it's probably because people would assume that a car with a big button that says EMERGENCY STOP or something like that is more likely to need an emergency stop button than a car that doesn't have one.

Though I guess they already have that in the form of "emergency brake". Do you suggest they implement electronics to perform these functions when the e-brake is depressed?

[joe_the_user]

Considering you haven't presented air-tight evidence for your position, I think you should consider another issue.

The increased use of electronic control in automobiles means that cars now have the problem that software has had for a while; real but difficult to reproduce bugs. When the control of the car has gone away from physical devices like rods and wires, not only is it harder to find the control but any problem that exists just seems creepier. This is another that I suspect is driving the current reaction.

[MikeCapone]

That's true.

What bugs me is that people don't keep things in perspective. I see people all the time claim they want to go back to the way cars were (more mechanically simple, or whatever). What they seem to forget is that cars broke down a hell of a lot more often back then.

In fact, they broke down so often that it wasn't such a big deal. Now we expect them to work flawlessly and when something goes wrong it somehow seems worse.

[paulbaumgart]

I haven't driven any newer Toyotas, but do they not let you turn off the ignition while in motion/gear?

[illumin8]

The newer Toyotas all have push button start. Apparently, it's not very intuitive, unless you have a lot of experience building PCs with ATX power supplies, that you need to hold down the start button for 3-4 seconds to turn off the engine when it is in drive.

It's almost like Microsoft designed these cars: "What? I push Start to shut down the car/computer?"

[Zak]

I really don't understand the push button start fad. Unless it's coupled to an RFID key or some such, it's less convenient than just turning the key.

[illumin8]

It is coupled with RFID chips in your key. I actually find it very convenient on my Hyundai. I can walk up to the car door and open it, it unlocks automatically because the RFID key is in my pocket. I can sit down and start the car and take off without ever removing my keys from my pocket.

It's also very convenient for opening the trunk without a key as well. It has proximity sensors by the driver and passenger doors, as well as the trunk.

[Hexstream]

http://www.jokesunlimited.com/jokes/if_microsoft_made_cars.h...

[baguasquirrel]

You can, but then it's stuck in drive/neutral. Seeing that the brakes and neutral are still operable, it should not be an issue. I don't even know why people are being advised to turn off the ignition. Shifting to neutral while braking reduces the load on the engine.

[paulbaumgart]

Wouldn't shifting to neutral make the engine rev up really high? Does the computer limit the RPMs to prevent damage?

[anamax]

> Wouldn't shifting to neutral make the engine rev up really high? Does the computer limit the RPMs to prevent damage?

Yes, the computers do.

However, if you're going to have an accident, engine damage is pretty low on the list of concerns, even if you ignore the fact that accidents cause engine damage.

[wisty]

Switching the engine off (if you can do it fast enough) should slow you down faster though. If you stay in gear with no ignition, the engine drag will brake you a bit.

[anamax]

> Switching the engine off (if you can do it fast enough) should slow you down faster though.

Switching off the ignition can lock the steering....

You also lose the power-assist on the brakes.

Given the above, you might not notice that you've also lost the power-assist on the steering.

[Confusion]

Not to mention the curious fact that these incidents only happen in the US, even though there are vast numbers of Toyota's out here in Europe.

[fh]

Most cars here in Europe are stick shift though. A stick shift car can't go berserk on you, you simply press the clutch pedal, as you do anyway when braking, and the acceleration is gone.