[Tichy]

Well I was responding to "breaches of trust", which seems like propaganda given that all that can be pointed to is some minor errors that are bound to happen in a large scale undertaking. I don't think calling those "breaches of trust" is very scientific. Maybe the one about the Himalya glaciers could be called like that, but I don't think it was the actual scientists being sloppy in that case.

I was only using the word "denialist" to shorten the sentence - what would have been an appropriate word, then?

[CWuestefeld]

all that can be pointed to is some minor errors that are bound to happen in a large scale undertaking

Ahem. Conspiring to thwart freedom of information laws is something that is bound to happen in large scale undertakings? Either you're propagandizing yourself, or you're someone that I really don't want working for my company.

The glacier thing was characterized as a "typographical error", which itself is clearly intended to minimize the ethical breach. A "typographical error" is one related to the typography -- maybe transposing digits, or accidently chopping off the bottom of a page or something. It clearly does not apply to errors of judgment, including non-reviewed sources as if they're factual.

None of this refutes AGW, which is actually my point. It makes us all wary. And the cure for that is openness and transparency. A battle of ad hominem attacks doesn't do anything for either side of the debate. But in the long run, building a case that we can all trust because we watched it being erected is to the benefit of all -- tree huggers and denialists alike.

[Tichy]

"Conspiring to thwart freedom of information laws"

When did that happen? If you are referring to the leaked emails, I don't think the case is so clear. Unless you want to believe it to be so.

The glaciers: don't remember the exact details, but wasn't it some relatively informal publication where the boss of the organization slipped something in without verifying with his scientists? Sounds more like sloppiness - although they should have uncovered the error sooner. But who knows, they might have had other things on their mind. I don't know how many scientists actually think about Himalayan glaciers on a daily basis (do you?). Except for the ones living in the Himalayan, one of was asked over the phone and apparently misinterpreted.

In any case, I don't think that error was made in an actual scientific paper, it was more part of general propaganda and politics. Not that I like it at all, but I don't see how it discredits the science as a whole.

In fact, I personally think dwelling on minor details and trying to blow them up to be elephants is a major indicator of revisionism.