[AKrumbach]

> What makes progressive social policies (ignoring loaded issues like reproductive options and gun control) so distasteful to some of those who would most benefit?

I'm not going to claim to answer for anybody but myself -- in large part because (a) I'm an urbanite too and (b) my politics can be least inaccurately described as "anarchist" -- but to me, this question really comes down to one point: respect/maturity.

Much of the modern progressive social policy package sounds to me like somebody saying "Tsk tsk, daddy's little princess deserves better! You sit back, I'll deal with this!" (Wages too low? Have a horrid health insurance plan that doesn't cover what you need? Housing in short supply? Don't fret, Just vote Progressive! We can legislate your woes away!)

That attitude is OK if "princess" is only 8 years old -- but only because a child is not mature enough to make many decisions, nor expected to be capable of executing on them. Should the target of this attitude be 18, it becomes mildly condescending since "princess" is on the verge of being a legal adult. However, should this be directed toward someone who is 28 or 38 [as all universal government policy inevitably must], the concern arises that whomever carries this attitude will never be treating "princess" like a capable, autonomous adult peer.

You may find concern and compassion in the progressive social agenda, but all I will ever perceive is condescension and thinly-disguised contempt.

[nitrogen]

I think this is why the only reasonable end-game for progressive ideas is a universal basic income. The point of positive social policy should be to lift everyone along the bottom/middle as much as possible while lowering the ceiling for the top as little as possible, and I believe that UBI, universal healthcare, and universal education will do that (increased taxes offset by increased social stability and economic growth).

At least for me, the question is not, "How can I show these 'little people' how to live better," it's, "What resources would I need to get back to where I am now if I found myself in situation X?" I don't see how that is condescending.

[AKrumbach]

[Quotes reordered for clarity of response.]

> At least for me, the question is not, "...

Look, I'm sure progressives don't mean to sound patronizing when pushing for any of their pet programs -- however, the truth of the matter is you are no more able to dictate how people feel about what you say than you can the weight bearing capacity of a bridge or the speed of a computer program. [That is -- you can exert some control, but it's not done by directly writing the answer on the blueprints.]

I even read your original post in this thread as asking the right sort of question to exert that control: "When progressives put forth a program, what is it their opponents hear that seems distasteful?" and I gave you my answer to that question.

> I think this is why the only reasonable end-game for progressive ideas is ...

Just... stop right there. First off, I wasn't trying to address any sort of ivory tower, idealized "progressive ideas" -- yes, I'm sure there are academics who want something like universal income, healthcare, education, etc. I'm talking about the ones agitating in the streets for a $15 minimum wage, or the politicians who were willing to pass Obamacare instead of single-payer programs. In fact, I find it highly likely that such ideologues are ostracized even among left-leaning groups in the US, because that is not what is put forth by most progressive (Democrat) politicians.

Second, I don't really have any feelings one way or the other about those programs. Like the examples above, I don't think human beings have direct, final control over (or even enough knowledge to say in advance) what systems will or won't work. Instead, we need to attempt a great many different things -- yes, UBI among them -- to sort out which ideas are good or bad, because not all possible flaws are immediately obvious. [Remember in my last post how I said I'm 'nearly' an anarchist? This is most of what I meant -- making sure there's always room for experiments in governance, in order to reduce our ignorance about the mercurial nature of things.]

[nitrogen]

Thanks for your response. I am trying to understand every step of the process that leads to the philosophical disconnect between different viewpoints, not just advocate for a specific cause (though I do have some causes in mind that I believe, at present, to be most beneficial to everyone). I'm trying to get myself and everyone else to play the long game, as it were -- to look beyond here, now, self, and party.