[nihonde]

I like Alain de Botton's take: money and status are essentially a proxies for love, in that people feel worthwhile if others "pay" attention/respect/cash to them. (Heavily paraphrased)

Now consider that Buddhist monks are forbidden from handling money, preparing their own food, and are willingly entirely dependent on the charity of others. It is a kind of self-imposed poverty that demonstrates how much a person can achieve without much more than the shirt on his back.

[geomark]

I'm having trouble following the jump from proxies for love to the practices of Buddhist monks. Monks don't own anything (except for their robes and alms bowl) and don't prepare their own food (and don't do many other things) in order to avoid attachments, which as we know is one of the fundamental causes of suffering and an obstacle to achieving enlightenment.

[nihonde]

In bringing up the monks, I was trying (maybe unsuccessfully) to challenge the idea that "poverty" is, ipso facto, a miserable, unhappy existence. De Botton makes the point that soldiers often endure conditions that are far worse than abject poverty, but are not unhappy due to the sense of a noble status given to them by their countrymen. Likewise, I think, for the monks who have nothing to their name, but are respected and honored for their discipline, etc.

[wsc981]

It's a bit off-topic, but in a way being a Buddhist monk is a very selfish lifestyle. You don't have to take care of yourself, society will take care of you. You don't contribute much to society apart from perhaps some religious services. In my opinion it's not a good way of life.

[nihonde]

"Monks" are not one, monolithic community, so it's hard to argue one way or another whether they contribute anything meaningful back to a community. Here in Japan, many Buddhist orders are downright wealthy (from donations), and use their considerable resources to preserve traditions and history. I doubt that you can put a dollar value on the benefits of keeping cultural history alive. In a sense, it's not too much different from the function of the Metropolitan Museum in New York. Of course, Buddhism is a many-facted religion that manifests differently in different places.

[Mtinie]

I've always understood the relationship between societies and monks (priests, ministers, nuns, etc.) to be one of "offset". Monks are taken care of so they can pursue the esoteric studies that the common person has no time for. In exchange, the common person's spiritual/religious/etc. enrichment is guided with assistance from the monk, similar to how patronage happens in the arts.

I'm sure this could be explained in an even more conduct way, but I'm having a hard time putting down in words how I see the relationship works in my mind.

[hornbaker]

Someone should build a Patreon for Monks.