[glup]

Nature by default doesn't have nuclear weapons, stock exchanges, global supply chains, industrial manufacturing, central banks, etc. Humans need morals (and norms more generally) in order to ensure that the above serve us rather than hurt us. Morals are a cultural technology like language or counting, and like those they may be (at least in their strong form) uniquely human.

[kbenson]

Morals are a intellectual shortcuts designed to help circumvent our natural proclivity for short term thinking over of long term thinking. As such, they change to some degree depending on the culture and society they arise in, to better suit the long (or medium, depending on your scale) goals of that society. Ancient Mongols were not immoral, fist differently moral than many of their contemporaries (and probably not as much as you would think), but that propelled them to the apex of human nations (based on what that meant at the time) for a while.

[tmptmp]

>>Nature by default doesn't have nuclear weapons....

While I agree with your sentiment, just would like to point this out that nature does have nuclear weapons, pretty scary ones for that matter: the stars.

Also, if we take these things to their logical conclusion, then the nuclear weapons created by human beings are, of course, created by nature - in this case, indirectly, using the humans.

This is just to point out the logical aspects of the arguments. Other than that, I do agree with you that we, the humans, need morals to sustain a better life for most human beings.

[return0]

These are nuclear, but not weapons. Nature doesn't have an enemy.

[tmptmp]

>>Nature doesn't have an enemy.

How are you so sure? Have you talked with Nature by any chance? Has Nature given you this statement, say, in English? I am not trying to be sarcastic here, I am dead serious.

I for example, think that Nature likes to fight many of its creatures against each other. e.g. polio viruses against human beings

I may be wrong, but one cannot be so sure.

[return0]

" Nature likes to fight many of its creatures against each other

Anthropomorphising can only go that far. Do you know any physical law that has volition?

[woodman]

It seems pretty common among social animals, violators get cut from the herd or monkey stomped.