[levemi]

> I worked for a startup, under 20 machines, I tried to buy then Windows 7 Enterprise. Microsoft's partners were super unhelpful, disinterested in a small account, refused to provide clear pricing, and I was getting upsold even before we got the basics squared away ("I'll just add on 20 CALs, a Windows Server license, and let's talk exchange!"). Ultimately we just gave up, and used Windows 7 Home(!) for three years.

You were likely talking to the wrong people. You need to go through bizspark[1] if you're a startup and you'll end up with a super-helpful dedicated Microsoft representative and lots of free stuff. It's been never anything but super in my experience to work with Microsoft as a startup.

[1] https://www.microsoft.com/bizspark

[cortesoft]

If those 'wrong' people are Microsoft employees, they should have directed him to the right people.

If they didn't, then it is absolutely Microsoft's fault.

[superuser2]

Microsoft sales are generally handled through small VARs (value-added resellers) which are hyper-local and send salespeople and technicians to drive around to local businesses. These VARs in turn buy from large distributors with more elite Microsoft partner status like Ingram Micro. Players at every level participate in some kind of Certified Partner Program and must be certified by the next level up the chain as conforming to requirements (has a physical office, X in revenue, N people on staff with Y certification, etc).

It's the same with Cisco, and really a lot of stuff in the enterprise space.

Plebes don't get to talk to Microsoft employees.

EDIT: I will add that I have worked for a few such resellers of various enterprisey tech companies. Your partner account buys you a hotline to competent vendor support engineers. They aren't reading scripts, take you at your word for the troubleshooting steps you've already tried, are happy to work a problem systematically with you, and will also readily admit that a product is defective and grant an RMA or even make a bug report, collect diagnostic logs from you, and tell you when a fix is slated for release. It's amazing.

[chris_wot]

So they should have directed him to a competent VAR then. They don't appear to have done that! The ball is most certainly still in Microsoft's court.

[levemi]

Microsoft is a huge organization with tens of thousands of employees. We have no idea what was communicated between this commenter and the sales person. At some point you have to kind of step back and realize that you're responsible for your outcomes and not blame everything bad that happens to you on others. Searching Google with "startup microsoft" or "startup pricing microsoft" would have been enough effort to figure this out.

[Animats]

No. That's not how sales organizations for competent companies work.

IBM, in the mainframe era, was very good at this. It was IBM policy that if you called anyone within IBM sales with a problem, it was the IBM employee's job to get you to the right people. All IBM salespeople had a little printed pocket book of phone numbers within IBM, a directory of contacts for various types of problems.

[mikestew]

Man, I can't upvote this enough. Say what you will about the IBM of old or new, when you called you didn't have to put up with this runaround of putting the onus on the potential customer. "Hi, IBM, I'd like to give you money." "Just a moment, sir, and the next person you speak with will be the one that can help you."

"Hi, Microsoft, I'd like to give you money but fuck me if I can figure out which SKU or how much." "You did it wrong, sir. You should have called this other number. Or you should have Googled it. But the last thing you should have done is called me, have a nice day. <click>"

I ran into this almost ten years ago trying to price the various SKUs we needed for Visual Studio. It was appallingly ridiculous how much time I spent on that, in contrast to just going to a web page, comparing features, click a few radio buttons, click "Buy", sorted. It was the last place I've worked since that I've had to beg Microsoft to take my money. Now they just plain don't get my money.

Signed, A very disappointed ex-MSFT employee and ex-shareholder

[protomyth]

IBM is still like that. I called with an issue on an old iSeries machine[1] and mentioned that I might want to purchase a new one[2]. I got no less that 3 calls within 4 hours asking me about my purchasing needs and giving me exact prices and plans. They would be fine with taking my money.

1) I guess if the switch its connected to gets reset, the older version of the OS cannot reconnect automatically.

2) accounting software will make you buy strange things

[tracker1]

I remember a friend of mine's company bought a $78k storage server around 1998, and one of the drives failed 4 months in, he called just to replace the drive and it took a call from the upstream vendor to get them to not try to sell them another >$70k storage server.

[hackuser]

For the record, that hasn't been my experience with IBM; I used to get a pretty bad runaround, but perhaps that's changed - I stopped using their products as a result.

[khedoros]

I took "mainframe era" to be roughly the 50s through 70s or 80s. Are you talking about the same time period?

[hackuser]

No, I guess I'm talking about the post-mainframe era; perhaps the PC era.

[holyoly]

The fact that you have to go to Google to search to find Microsoft pricing, and have to already have the knowledge that they have special "startup" pricing is a failure on Microsoft's part.

[thedaemon]

I still can't find accurate Microsoft pricing with my Google-fu. It's ludicrous!

[levemi]

You know given the title and the bait it presents to a particular kind of people I should have known better than share with people a positive thing about Microsoft and to suggest they think for themselves.

[nitrogen]

Don't be like that. From the other commenters' perspective, you didn't share a positive thing about MS, you made a negative comment about them.

Don't let confirmation bias and an MS persecution complex make you put up a wall to legitimate concerns.

[chris_wot]

You shared your positive experience about dealing with Microsoft, but you also downplayed the OP's experience. Even though he went through the process he attempted in some detail, you told him he was responsible for the poor customer service he got from Microsoft.

That's why you aren't getting favourable comments.

[geofft]

You're not getting downvoted because you're saying a positive thing about Microsoft, for the simple reason that the thing you're saying about Microsoft isn't positive.

[digler999]

If you like MSFT so much, I have some spyware you can remove on my sister's laptop. only took me 4 hrs last time.

[tracker1]

When my grandmother's computer finally died a couple years ago, I bought her a chromebook to replace it... mom liked it so much I gave her one... now about half of my family that I regularly talk to uses them.

[TheOtherHobbes]

Do you understand how that sounds?

"We failed to sell you something you wanted, and it's your fault."

Besides, BizSpark is solely for startups, not for established SMBs, who would quite reasonably expect to be able to sign up for Enterprise by searching for "Enterprise".

Is this too obvious, perhaps?

[jessaustin]

Is it really your assumption that thread parent neglected even to google this topic of such great import to business success? That seems neither likely nor charitable.

[levemi]

It's definitely more palatable than blindly bringing out the "M$" pitchforks but I guess if you were looking for something on HN to get your daily anger fix I guess feel free to use this as your opportunity.

[jessaustin]

Wow!

[chris_wot]

It's irrelevant if Microsoft are a huge organization with tens of thousands of employees. Sales aren't made via excuses.

Putting the responsibility on the customer to find the right set of keywords - in Google no less! - to purchase copies of enterprise software is bizarre.

[jessaustin]

Hahaha, "we only sell to Bing users!" Now that's a strategy tax!

[monocasa]

If he's able to reach "the wrong people", that still represents a failure on Microsoft's part.

[stordoff]

> You need to go through bizspark

Shouldn't Microsoft make that clear then? If I wanted Windows 10 Enterprise for a business, I'd search for "windows 10 enterprise", follow the link to "Windows 10 Enterprise for your enterprise business - Microsoft"[1], and go to the "Buy>How to buy"[2] page. There is zero mention of BizSpark in that process as far as I can see.

It's also non-obvious from your link that BizSpark includes Windows 10 Enterprise. I had to download the "Products by benefits level" Excel sheet to be sure, and it appears to be limited to five people regardless.

I understand that Microsoft's enterprise licensing typically involves going through a reseller, but Microsoft certainly could be doing a better job pointing people (esp. small businesses) in the right direction. Even if I go through to "Contact a Windows Solution Provider"[3], it defaults to searching for UK and an 8km radius (accurate enough), sort by "Most relevant". Top 5 results:

* German-language result

* Scandinavian/Nordic-language result (doesn't look like Swedish, Danish, or Norwegian to me. Possibly Finnish?)

* English-language result, but located in the Netherlands

* French-language result

* Italian-language result

Maybe these companies can help me, or maybe they are the "wrong people" to whom you refer. Following what I would see as the obvious path to try and purchase Windows 10 Enterprise, I'd have no idea how to tell the difference.

[1] https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/WindowsForBusiness/windows-f... [2] https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/WindowsForBusiness/buy [3] https://pinpoint.microsoft.com/en-GB/search?type=companies&k...

[merb]

bizspark is only for up to 7 people. I mean you could actually create a single account and use the same key for multiple machines but if it comes to office your limited to 2 keys per user. but you could install every key on up to 2 machines but licensing forbids to use both installations at once.

[nitrogen]

Does Microsoft still unleash the BSA on small businesses that are out of compliance?

[karmicthreat]

I'm pretty sure no business can be in compliance since different parts of microsoft will give you a different story about what needs to be licensed.

[jessaustin]

Does the pope shit in the woods?

[plandis]

The fact that it's apparently not obvious who to talk to seems to be a problem for Microsoft to solve if they care about the "little guys" (maybe they don't? I'm not sure)