[talmand]

So, if I take your favorite language and somehow manage to cause its ecosystem to get as bad as you claim Javascript's is, does that mean your favorite language is now bad?

[horrido]

But why did the ecosystem get out of hand so easily? Because the sloppiness of the language encouraged it or made it easy to abuse it. JavaScript's ecosystem is notoriously bad in this respect (cf. with Java or Python or Ruby).

[talmand]

I totally disagree with that, but that's just my opinion.

[emodendroket]

I think it would, yes.

[talmand]

That's really sad.

[emodendroket]

Why? No matter how great the language itself is it's a small part of what you actually end up needing to spend your time working with.

[talmand]

It's sad because that's judging a language based on external things that don't directly relate to the language itself. It's like blaming tools for the misuse of the tools instead of the people actually misusing the tools.

[emodendroket]

I mean, I'm not holding Brendan Eich personally responsible for the toolchain or anything, but it's not pleasant to work in a language whose ecosystem sucks.

[talmand]

I work in Javascript every day, its ecosystem has very little influence on its usage in my job. I guess it varies from job-to-job.