[Aelinsaar]

Yes, but they're not so well funded, and their positions are fundamentally harder to communicate than simple, manipulative, well funded campaigns. It's like comparing a pre-school and a military school because they both share the words "School". You won't be totally wrong of course, but you will have missed the point.

[ethanbond]

I don't disagree, but a lot of people don't understand that the term "lobbying" in fact does not just refer to evil corporations bribing politicians, and thus should not be categorically made illegal.

[Aelinsaar]

I think it's worth remembering that when people talk about "Lobbying", they are often talking about a particular subset of lobbying attached to extremely vast sources of money and power. More, the unrestricted nature of that lobbying, in practice, breaks the system down.

It would be the case if this were happening with well-intentioned environmentalists too, although I'm sure it would look very different in the particulars. The fact is though, that in history doesn't teach us to be concerned about vastly wealthy and powerful environmental interests. Maybe that will change someday, but it's not the history of our planet at least.

tl;dr Context

[pc86]

Funny how the minute we don't like something it becomes manipulative.

[Aelinsaar]

I think I was pretty clear that the amount of money and power existing in asymmetry is the issue, not whether I like it or not.