[on_]

I understand where you're coming from but is there a qualification for "scientist". Is Mark Zuckerberg or Patrick Collison considered computer scientists? Is Richard Branson considered a business man? Is Elizabeth Holmes a business woman? She runs a business which (arguably I guess) is doing science.

I don't really think a scientist is a term that demands credentials. Obviously, specializations and distinctions in the field do, but you can certainly be an engineer without a degree and conduct science without one.

[LordHumungous]

>Is Mark Zuckerberg or Patrick Collison considered computer scientists?

No.

[on_]

ah, gotcha, I guess my point above was that titles are abitrary as fuck. For example:

Patrick Collison dropped out of MIT to be the founder and lead developer of 2 technology companies. So I guess I just have trouble figuring out what to call someone who performs all of the same tasks and functions as a label, has much of the knowledge associated with someone who has such a label, and actively studied the for a degree in that label as an autodidact, at a top-tier university(uncompleted), and as an apprentice.

Is he not an engineer? If not, would he be if he finished the few semesters he was shy of graduating at university of phoenix online?

[Mvandenbergh]

Sure, he's an engineer. Most people who have computer science degrees work in software engineering jobs and wouldn't think of themselves as "computer scientists" since that is a scientific/mathematical academic discipline. (A very small percentage of software engineers are doing work that is both advancing theoretical computer science and building practical engineering solutions but they probably still think of themselves as engineers)

[forgetsusername]

>Sure, he's an engineer.

How is someone an engineer without an official engineering designation?

It's funny that Zuckerberg is dismissed as a computer scientist, but accepted as an engineer, proving how arbitrary these titles are.

[Mvandenbergh]

The software world has always been different. If you want to be precise, he's obviously not an engineer in the sense that mechanical, civil, electrical etc. engineers have professional licensing bodies with education requirements, licensing exams, and legally protected titles. On the other hand, by those standards there are almost no software engineers since even if parallel licensing regimes exist for them, almost nobody cares.

If we're using titles that describe what they do rather than professional licensing (which doesn't apply to software) then these people build software and lead teams that build software. That's software engineering. If you don't like the use of the word 'engineer' for someone who isn't a Professional Engineer then,

a) Tough, that boat has sailed.

b) Pick a different word, "software builder", "coding guy", whatever.

No matter how you slice it, they are not computer scientists.

[LordHumungous]

It's not that arbitrary. Computer scientists typically have PhDs and they publish papers on the theory of computer science. It doesn't mean "smart and works with computers."

[ZanyProgrammer]

Its the problem with software engineering in general-its accepted that one doesn't need a BS in computer science or software engineering.