[hollander]

When I have a 200k income, I don't really care about getting welfare, and I can probably pay healthcare myself. But I don't have that kind of income, and then healthcare, pension and social benefits really count.

We may pay more tax, but I'm glad we have the backup system that keeps you going when you're sick or unemployed.

[hackbinary]

Healthcare is actually a macro economic question. The private American system is much worse, and more expensive than the British public, universal system which is free at the point of delivery for everyone. Americans spend 17.9% of their GDP on healthcare, while the British only spend 9.6%. Americans are being ripped off by the American healthcare industry.

Personally, I rather pay a 10% tax to cover healthcare rather than 20% of my salary to insurance premiums.

https://docs.google.com/a/hackbinary.com/spreadsheets/d/1aMx...

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/jun/30/healthc...

[mahyarm]

The sad reality is if your employed, you have good health insurance, and if your not, your visa isn't there either and your back to europe/canada with social services anyway :/

American also has Social Security & 401k (pensions) and health care for the old (medicare) / poor (mediCAL, medicaid), and some social services (public school, various state programs in california)

[kspaans]

Comparing pensions does get tricky very quick. In Canada for example there is a deduction from your paycheque for Canada Pension Plan (CPP) (assuming you don't live in Québec), but many employers will also have matching-contribution RRSP (same as a 401k) plans. So when you retire you get government pension plus private sector pension (which would be a mix of what you contributed and what your employer matched). The UK is similar where you get a government pension plus many employers have a tax-deferred retirement savings plan they will contribute to.

[eulji]

I am from the ostbloc som my taxes are are being spent on bribing, corruption etc. We might not be paying that huge taxes but it's still a lot.

I am less compassionate than the other folks in Europe and would really prefer a more capitalistic system at least in my country. But we Europeans are....ehhhh.

[NetStrikeForce]

Corruption is a problem by itself - it doesn't make the social democracies wrong.

And expect corruption in the private system, too. There's no other explanation for $500 aspirins :-)

[brbsix]

A free market is denoted by the absence of intervention by government, price-setting monopoly, or other authority. Under what circumstances are these $500 aspirin being purchased? I have a strong suspicion that some sort of cartel is involved. If not, I'd be happy to supply the market for far less.

[NetStrikeForce]

Cartel, like in a corrupt system, right? Maybe just what I've said?

If you can get in the healthcare industry in the US you'll be a genius. Or probably a criminal, there's no legal way to get out of the current status quo without government intervention.

I like the free market, but you're oversimplifying reality.

[brbsix]

There's another explanation (among many) for $n aspirin, that is to cover shortfalls from public health program reimbursements. It's a similar story with life flights. Not exactly a problem borne out of the private market, unless you're arguing that government intervention is corrupt?