[llamataboot]

chris_wot -- the HN algorithms keep from from responding to your post again, but I hope you don't think I was being sarcastic (I wasn't, I was just stating the bare minimum of how I understood your views). I don't believe in a Christian god (though I did for a long while) nor do I believe in heaven or hell (though I'm still probably less rational and more mystical than 95% of HN - but thanks for the nuanced response. I do admit that it is completely logical to take the view that we all have free will yet God exists outside time and space so knows everything that will happen so therefore of course predestination and free will are not at odds with each other. I'd urge you to reflect on how an all-loving being could condemn anyone to torture for all eternity based on the decisions they made in one tiny lifetime, but that's neither here nor there. We're getting far afield of the main topic here, but I hope you would admit that prosperity HAS been a tenant of mainstream Calvinism in so far as god showering his elect on earth with blessings, etc.

[chris_wot]

Not at all - I knew exactly what you were saying and I didn't think it was sarcastic. I also wasn't offended, you basically summed up a lot of Calvanism (and rather starkly but accurately summed up my view on it!), and there was no real sugar coating of it. I respect that.

To be honest, when I read about the Prosperity Gospel, it's so far away from the New Testament gospels I have read a few times now that I just frankly don't understand it at all. I mean, in the gospel of Matthew, Jesus is reported to have said "Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."

I've definitely grappled with the concept of hell and damnation. It's not the appropriate forum to really discuss this in too much detail, suffice it to say that I think a perfect, loving God who is rejected and wronged by a creation made in His own image (with all that entails) because that creation needed to be given the freedom to accept or reject it's creator must give that creation a response.