[martin1975]

Religion is what the unconverted soul does in order to do right by God. To "make it to heaven", so to speak, by doing good things and avoiding doing bad or downright ugly things. All attempts at pleasing God - i.e. religion - are doomed because you inevitably will fail to meet the standard, because it is an impossible one - i.e. don't lust for women in your heart. Just as I wrote that...probably a thought or an image flew. Too late, you just sinned.

What's a chap to do in the face of the ever present human nature and its propensity to play God with anything and everything it can get away with? -NOTHING- seems like a really tall standard. Have you tried to do -NOTHING- lately in the face of whatever went on in your mind which was absolutely telling you to act?

Try that. And when you fail - and you will... MAYBE..and I say MAYBE then you might get a glimpse of how powerless we are as humans as well as our will to execute on what we know is right, but constantly fail to do.

Maybe this makes sense to you.. maybe it doesn't. My only advice is - keep being whomever you are... and you may, if you're humble enough, experience this conversion, past which there's no turning back.

The only two elements required to get to it is humility and faith..... in the end you will see Who God is, regardless.

I'll stop here before I start to proselytize or make even less sense.

[notpresident]

> because it is an impossible one - i.e. don't lust for women in your heart.

Not impossible. Hard. Worth it IMO.

I'm now married after having lived that way for a number of years and it still has benefits. Not only for my SO.

As mentioned above, breaking into that state was hard, I worked for months without luck so I totally can relate to the "impossible" claim.

I relate the breakthrough to my being "born again" experience and I think I would rather die happily on the spot instead of going back.

Edit: posted from sockpuppet account because while I happily might share personal stuff I try to separate it from work stuff.

[lsd_throwaway]

Without going too far off topic into a boring argument that won't go anywhere - I should say my religion comment includes the idea of a god/faith or supernatural creator etc.

[darkclarity]

I experienced a similar (but non-drug related) shock to you several years ago and it changed how I think. I came to the conclusion that religion is just an old fashioned, and highly specialised, way of treating mental health. Without going into details, it gives people an ultimate dose of peace of mind.

[martin1975]

well people have tried excessive orgasms for treating mental health... or drugs... or workaholism... or some other addiction. It never pans out. So I guess surrendering to a higher power isn't so bad. Just gotta choose that power wisely, no?

[darkclarity]

Yeah, some religions are more benign than others, to put it mildly. I'm not religious personally, but I find it interesting that a lot of these religious movements practice stoic values and do some sort of meditation. Those two aspect are now mainstream treatments (AKA CBT and Mindfulness) that doctors recommend for mental health problems. That's just scratching the surface though.

[martin1975]

You sir, at least have an inquiring mind. That's a lot more I can say for many people who I've known years and years.

[tremon]

don't lust for women in your heart. Just as I wrote that...probably a thought or an image flew. Too late, you just sinned.

Nope. A fleeting image or thought is lust in your mind, not in your heart.

Incidentally....

Religion is what the unconverted soul does in order to do right by God

Enlightenment is achieved by realizing one does not need God to do right.

[martin1975]

My problem is that I don't trust my own sense of morality.

[killa_kyle]

Can you expand on that?

[martin1975]

Yes. I know what I need to do, I know what is right, yet I end up doing the wrong thing anyway. This happens more often than not. Thus, I don't trust my own sense of morality.

[killa_kyle]

I think that's just being human.

[gjm11]

> I'll stop here before I start to proselytize

Too late.

(Also: If the standard is an impossible one, that is a problem with the standard.)

[martin1975]

theoretically.... it is possible to never act out of integrity. emphasis on theoretically.