Hacker News new | ask | show | jobs
by salem 3728 days ago
It's called covert channels. It could be done by flipping some unused/ignored bits in ip4/tcp headers in a stream of traffic that goes past a collection point.
1 comments

But this is still easily visible with wireshark, right? Don't you think we'd have discovered this by now?
How would Wireshark reveal this kind of attack? If the management chip has direct hardware access, it can hide data in innocuous-looking packets that the host machine never sees. You would have to monitor both the packets that the OS thinks it's sending, and the packets actually received by the switch, and constantly compare them for mismatches. Given the performance cost, I find it hard to believe that anyone except the most paranoid organizations would actually do this.

And of course, if you block the obvious exfiltration methods, all you do is force the attacker to do something more creative. Like modulating inter-packet timings, or even sending data to a nearby radio receiver by using the system bus as an antenna.

> How would Wireshark reveal this kind of attack? If the management chip has direct hardware access, it can hide data in innocuous-looking packets that the host machine never sees.

Lots of organizations use various forms of intrusion detection. A network intrusion detection system (NIDS) would be an off-device system which monitors network traffic for suspicious or obviously malicious packets.

It's certainly no guarantee, but somewhere along the line someone probably would have noticed something if these systems were exfiltrating data via the network using something like IPv4 headers. Specifically, a quick look makes it look like Snort (an open source NIDS) may actually be distributed with rules to alert on IPv4 reserved bits being set.

You keep saying that "someone should have noticed something" but as the old adage goes, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence

What you seem to keep missing is that we know from the Snowden leaks that the capability already exists, and NSA has successfully used implants to do data exfil in the past.

"absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

This isn't true. Absence of evidence is weak evidence of absence, and suggests that it's not the case.

Not disagreeing with anything else in your comment, but that quote completely defies Bayes 101.

There are ways of doing it invisibly. Change timestamps in very subtle ways, Embed data in lossy media formats, etc.

If the code says "phone home if anywhere on the screen you see one of the following email addresses" then it won't show up in a normal security audit, unless you email one of those people during the audit. All the NSA has to do is make the phoning home rare enough that it's probabilisticly unlikely to be observed.

Exfiltration of logged keystrokes and other data is possible through introducing network packet jitter by the ME. This is virtually undetectable.

https://events.ccc.de/congress/2013/Fahrplan/events/5380.htm...