[studentrob]

> It's probably worth noting that I don't think @gkya is supporting Erdogan

Thanks, I see that now. Some of @gkya's words sounded like they take the opposite viewpoint, such as,

>> Speech should not be regulated in any ways

>> Freedom of speech does not mean irresponsible and banale flow of whatever one thinks.

>> freedom of speech must not mean that one can be reckless, inconsiderate and demeaning.

It reads like it was unedited and is very hard to follow

> When one looks at his actions in the light of those motives his actions make a lot of sense. Without those motives his actions appear stupid.

I disagree, see my comments about astute businessmen not using yes-men above. No worries if we don't agree here. Countries are most certainly businesses. They're in the business of acquiring people who generate money.

[nl]

>> When one looks at his actions in the light of those motives his actions make a lot of sense. Without those motives his actions appear stupid.

> I disagree, see my comments about astute businessmen not using yes-men above. No worries if we don't agree here. Countries are most certainly businesses. They're in the business of acquiring people who generate money.

Right, but that is assuming that Erdogan is trying to do what is best for the country in the long term. Many would argue his primary concern is Erdogan's interests in the short term.

[studentrob]

> Many would argue his primary concern is Erdogan's interests in the short term.

Former dictators who censored speech don't generally have happy post-political careers. I wouldn't imagine trying to put a strangle hold on a whole country's speech is exactly stress free either.

Whether he is planning for the short term or for his whole life, Erdogan isn't so bright as @gkya would have you believe. He certainly doesn't have the best interests of his country in mind. However, I'll add something else you may not expect me to believe, which is that I believe everyone does things in their own interests. I wouldn't expect anyone to do otherwise. Erdogan's behavior is simply a matter of foresight. He's not seeing his own future clearly.

Ergo, Erdogan isn't bright.

[nl]

Ergo, Erdogan isn't bright.

No one - least of all @gkya - is saying he is bright. They are saying his actions aren't stupid.

Former dictators who censored speech don't generally have happy post-political careers.

Plenty have died in office while still holding power, too. Most of Turkey's immediate neighbors have had dictators who died while in power.

[studentrob]

Ug, this is so pedantic. What I meant was he is stupid, I was just trying to sound nicer. Anyway, no worries if you disagree. I don't think remaining in power for life is as stress free and happy as you imply. I imagine those who seek such control don't realize this until they've cornered themselves into an intractable position. If you give up control as a dictator, there's no guarantee you're set or even safe for life. I'm sure that is concerning to realize that when you've surrounded yourself with forced fake friends, they might not have your back when you don't provide anything for them anymore.

[gkya]

I'm sorry if I've been unclear. I do not in any ways support Erdogan. Though I insist that freedom of speech does not mean that one can be irresponsible of what he says.

[studentrob]

Everything you say and do has consequences whether you accept them or not. Free speech says the state cannot punish you for what you say, with certain small exceptions that vary by country that has free speech, such as libel and direct threats on someone's life.