[girvo]

> only sources of sanity and reason in this community

Oh come on now, lets not be hyperbolic. I'm a massive fan of Ember, but I'm a bigger fan of Redux with React; the reason that Ember can afford to be opinionated is because the team is extremely smart and takes the best winning ideas from the outside "insane" community.

[elliotec]

I'm not being hyperbolic, and I think the React ecosystem deserves a large part of the blame for this mess. I am totally aware that is an unpopular opinion.

The fact that Ember can distill the insanity of the community into an opinionated and usable framework (and also take wonderful ideas from things like Rails) is exactly what I mean by a source of reason.