[anon4this1]

each year 19,000 americans die from prescription opioid overdoses and another 10,000 die from heroin overdoses which often start with prescription opioid use.

In my experience (as an anaesthesiologist), people who use opioids as a response to non-pain problems are some of the most miserable people there are. It might work for a couple of weeks, but soon you're tolerant, addicted, intermittently withdrawing and your life becomes a wreck. "The prevalence of suicide attempts among opioid addicts is reported to lie between 8% and 17%, with some studies reporting an even higher rate among special groups of addicts. " http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9018906

Using MDMA might be useful as it is non-addictive, but again habitual use leads to decreasing benefits and increasing problems.

[md224]

I appreciate your input as a medical professional.

Are you familiar with studies using NMDA receptor antagonists to reduce opiate tolerance?

For example, here's a study they did on mice: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10763858

Also, don't you think your sample is biased as a doctor? As in: the people you're likely to encounter in your line of work are those that are in need of medical care?

[dools]

Saying that prescription opioid use is a cause of heroin overdoses ignores the fact that the reason people move to heroin is because of the paranoia about addiction which causes their prescriptions to be cut off in the first place.

In the same vein (no pun intended) I've been looking for stats but not being able to find anything about what percentage of prescription opioid overdoses occur while the patient is being actively prescribed, versus those which occur when the patient is obtaining the drugs illegally once their prescription has been cut off because doctors are afraid they'll become addicted.

[kaitai]

There's a piece missing from this argument: opioids were inappropriately prescribed to start with in many cases.

Think of all those folks with back pain. Back pain is complex and difficult to treat, but huge components come from 1) the stupid chairs we sit in 2) at our stupid jobs that encourage hours of sitting 3) in our cities that discourage biking or walking to work, all in the context of 4) a food system that gives us crap to eat that makes us mildly addicted to sugar and salt and makes us unhealthy.

So the real cure for back pain for a lot of people is to go back 20 years in time, make a commitment to taking care of their physical selves, aligning their eating, transportation, work, and recreation with health. The second-best cure is physical therapy. Physical therapy right now! But that costs money and time and no one believes it works (it does!!!) so the pain med is seen as the proximate best answer.

Brings us back to the original original post, actually.

[raverbashing]

> that the reason people move to heroin is because of the paranoia about addiction which causes their prescriptions to be cut off in the first place

Well it seems they are right, if people will move to an illegal substance right after they get cut from it

[md224]

Pretty sure if coffee was outlawed tomorrow you'd see a lot of people moving to illegal substances. Doesn't mean people can't handle the substance, just means people who are cut off from substances they depend on will go out of their way to satisfy that dependency.

[Sophistifunk]

This is a tautology. You're not "right" to fear illegal drug use if your reaction to said fear (cutting off access to quality-controlled, measured doses) causes it.

[oxide]

contrary to popular opinion these days, I think pain is undertreated and routinely so. quality of life should take priority over dependence concerns especially in the elderly.

[DanBC]

Opioids are not a suitable treatment for long term pain, especially in the elderly.

People need rapid access to pain management clinics, with weight loss and strength building exercise, and access to meds (which in long term pain are often not opioids).

Giving those people opioids increases their risk of accidental death, and suicide. It gives them an addiction. But worse it does not treat their pain - they will still have the pain.

[oxide]

This is ignorant at best and naive at worst. God help anyone you treat, and if you aren't a medical professional its probably for the best. Your comment makes me physically ill.

[DanBC]

Which bit is wrong?

You seem to think pain control is opioids or nothing, and that's not true. There are a range of meds that should be used before opioids are tried. You also seem to think that pain control is only medication, and that's not true either. Exercise is a powerful intervention that can cure some long term pain (especially long term lower back pain). This strength building exercise is really important for older people too.

Opioids really don't work for long term pain. People develop a tolerance, which means they need to take more to get the same effect, but that means they end up taking dangerous quantities, and not getting pain relief.

Here's a Pubic Health England project to support prescribing of opioids: https://www.rcoa.ac.uk/faculty-of-pain-medicine/opioids-awar...

> 1. Opioids are very good analgesics for acute pain and for pain at the end of life but there is little evidence that they are helpful for long term pain.

> 2. A small proportion of people may obtain good pain relief with opioids in the long-term if the dose can be kept low and especially if their use is intermittent (however it is difficult to identify these people at the point of opioid initiation)

> 3. The risk of harm increases substantially at doses above an oral morphine equivalent of 120mg/day, but there is not increased benefit.

> 4. If a patient is using opioids but is still in pain, the opioids are not effective and should be discontinued, even if no other treatment is available.

Here's a BBC Radio programme about health. They visit a pain management clinic. People who visit that clinic usually have to detox from their opioid addiction before they can start the pain management work. This is because opioids really are not suitable for long term pain, and other meds / interventions should be used. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04wv052

Here's a physician on HN talking about why opiates are not suitable for long term pain: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10285321

[aminok]

You sound like a drug abuse apologist.

[brianwawok]

But what is the root cause of pain? I used to be depressed and in a lot of pain. I could have got anti depressants and anti pain rXs. Turns out I was just fat and my body was mad at me. Switched to an active lifestyle and everything got better.

Does that mean it would work for everyone? No. But no doctor told me to go run. they either gave me medicine A or B or C, and changed doses to try and minimize side effects. It's terrible but I understand. I can't go to an overweight depressed friend and tell him he needs to fix his life not take drugs for his bad back.

[fucking_tragedy]

> afraid they'll become addicted.

Someone who isn't addicted to highly addictive substances doesn't engage in risky behavior, disregarding consequences and their well-being, by seeking out undosed, more potent and potentially adulterated highly addictive street drugs.

Maybe their doctor has a valid concern. Opioids are rarely an effective treatment for non-cancer and chronic pain if taken regularly for a variety of reasons.

Ideally, if a doctor is going to stop refilling a prescription of an opioid addicted patient, they should be referred to appropriate services. Detoxification, pain management and mental health specialists should be all be involved for the patient's well-being. The patient should never be cut off cold-turkey like that.

[ownagefool]

You sure about that? I'd imagine given enough pain for a long enough duration, I'd find a solution that either cures or kills me.

[humbleMouse]

I think mushrooms might be a better drug to give people than opiates. Send people to the redwood forest for a week to stay in a small cabin and eat mushrooms/smoke weed/eat good food and see how depressed they are afterwards!