Hacker News new | ask | show | jobs
by eitally 3743 days ago
I think this article is important and useful, but the title she chose is misleading. The content has absolutely nothing to do with higher education, or either correlative or causative connection to her employment with Instacart. Social mobility is an interesting research area, and it's important to be aware that most people who claim bootstrapping out of poverty is easy are the folks who've never been in poverty or worked menial jobs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socio-economic_mobility_in_the...

Press coverage: http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/07/america-...

http://www.salon.com/2015/03/07/the_myth_destroying_america_...

http://www.brookings.edu/blogs/social-mobility-memos/posts/2...

http://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21595437-america...

Original research / scholarly articles:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022103115...

http://www.irp.wisc.edu/publications/focus/pdfs/foc262g.pdf

3 comments

Authors at media publications usually don't get to choose titles, so let's not assume she chose it. We'll use the subtitle for now (shortened to fit the limit). If anyone has a better idea, we can change it again.

By the way, we put this article in the second-chance pool (described at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10705926 and the other links there) and removed the penalty normally applied to buzzfeed.com. We did that because on first glance, at least, it's far better than the median article in this category: it speaks substantively from first-hand experience.

This is also a category that tends to set off flamewars. Hopefully commenters will respond to the substance of the piece and that won't happen this time.

and it's important to be aware that most people who claim bootstrapping out of poverty is easy are the folks who've never been in poverty or worked menial jobs

I don't know about easy, but I know from personal experience that it's possible, at least in some cases. I did it. And I saw other people do it.

And while it's not politically correct to say this, I firmly believe that a significant factor in whether (some) people escape their circumstances or not is simply desire and work ethic. Just to share an interesting anecdote... when I was in college, I had a friend who went to my same school. He didn't have a car, and the campus was about 12-15 miles from his home. Did he let that deter him? F%!# no... dude walked to school the days he couldn't get a ride. This guy had a burning passion to improve his life and he wasn't going to let something as trivial as lack of transportation stop him. Now, how many people are willing to commit to that level of effort to raise themselves up? I don't know, but my experience suggests that it's a pretty small percentage.

Did people stop hiring plumbers? It's difficult in North America to become a millionaire, but it's pretty trivial to escape poverty. What I often find is people would rather be poor than sell their skills to the highest bidder, eg. I know welders who refuse $60/hr jobs because they dislike the oil industry.

Or train for jobs that actually pay, like plumbing.

I don't know what it's like the US, but in the UK becoming a plumber is a long way from "pretty trivial."

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2010/may/15/fast-track-plum...

Here it's not difficult, unless you want a union plumbing job. The reason why becomming a union plumber is difficult, say for San Francisco local ?, is getting every question on an easy test right. Plus there's a lot of people applying to take the test. Those Union plumbers are paid I believe over $100/HR.

The easy way is just call yourself a Plumber, and put an ad on CL. Something like what that very conservative guy did--what's his name--"Joe the Plumber". In all honestly, these guys get the job done. I wouldn't want them installing hydronic heating though.

The other way is get a licence through the state. You can get a general contractor's licence, or a Plumber's licence. It's easy. There's schools that will walk you through the paperwork, and an easy test. You don't need the school. They are a ripoff.

If your young, and have kids, a union plumbing job is great. Non-union plumbing is a horrid job. The only one making a real living us the owner.

I was in the San Franciso electrical union and it was a good deal. I didn't stick around. Just found construction very boring, but it paid well.

If anyone reads this who's thinking about going into a union trade, I'll pass this along. Construction is construction. Stay away from non-union construction. If you are going to be a construction worker go union, and try to get into these unions in this order. The order I'm picking us quality of work, and pay.

Elevator mechanics union(might have changed name?) Electrical union local 6 if in San Francisco. Plumbers union, or HVAC union(forget the name)

Stay away from carpenters union, unless you get into the finish carpenters uinion(if still around?) Stay away from roofing, concrete, insulation, and painting--if you can? If you really want to go into one of those trades make sure to get into the union.

Non-union construction is right above not working. "Oh, but I see Tom, and Horhe, and they seem happy?". I don't know how these guys are happy. I've worked non-union, and it paid retail. The conditions were horrid.

To anyone against union, do a non-union construction job just one day. Just one day. Look at what you are paid. Then look at the house that the owner of the non-union lives in. He usually has houses, and he bought each of his kids their first house.

Hands down worst job I ever had was at Bradley Electric. My father went through a union apprenticeship program with this guy--if he's still around. He opened a very successful non-union shop, and would hire desperate guys, at horrid wages.

I don't think "trivial" is quite the word you're looking for. This article doesn't really address that point, but "escaping poverty" isn't trivial. If poverty simply meant lack of money but all else were held equal, your claim would be more accurate, but would mean very little (e.g., was Elon Musk "poor" during the time when all of his net worth was wrapped up in trying to get Tesla and SpaceX off the ground?).

Poverty is pretty complicated. Escaping it is too.

Please explain how you believe its pretty trivial to escape poverty? A grossly ignorant statement that.
Step 1. Get a job. Step 2. Rent the cheapest place Step 3. Take a flagging course Step 4. Become a flagger. Step 5. Take a trades course. Step 6. Work for whoever pays the most.

Alternatively, Step 1. Go to public library Step 2. Use computer to learn web Dev/ something in tech. Step 3. sign up for freelance site. Step 4. Use the freelance work to acquire tech job

Alternatively, Step 1. Post cleaner ad on Craigslist that says you'll do laundry. Step 2. Make $15-$20 an hour.