[yeureka]

The other problem with taking jobs for less than market value is that you are affecting the salary of everybody else, not just yours.

You might not care because you don't need the income, but other people do and they are not being greedy for asking enough to support a family.

I spent many years as a cheap developer and I will never go back if I can avoid it.

It hurts more people than just me.

[jnbiche]

If I could add something here, it's that the same applies not only within a particular country (say, the US), but also between countries.

If you're a highly skilled programmer in Eastern Europe or S. America (I mention those two for my example because I see a lot of very talented programmers coming out of those two regions), and you're working for $30/hr for a successful American company, I urge you to re-think your approach. Yes, maybe for your life situation and in your country, $30/hr is not a bad deal. But if you're a highly experienced developer, with relatively rare skills, you're still being significantly underpaid vis-a-vis your skills.

I worked on a project where I was the only American (and also probably the worst programmer on the team, btw) and was paid $100/hour when my colleagues were paid $20-30/hour. The company owner (an American company that could have afforded much more) literally laughed at how good of a deal he was getting, and thought the genius programmers from country X in E. Europe were pretty naive for not jacking up their rates. I feel pretty bad for not telling my co-workers back then (it was 5+ years ago), so I'm telling you now: value your labor properly, no matter where you are.

Charging a fair rate not only helps you, but it also helps your colleagues in more expensive countries, who cannot afford to work for $20/hr and pay rent.

[CM30]

I have to admit, I've always been a bit skeptical of the 'market value' part of this sort of argument. Seems like the same logic behind journalists complaining that bloggers are taking their market, or professional photographers annoyed that sites like Flickr mean people can get pro quality photographs for free or little money. Or complaints that open source is eating the market by commercial software developers.

I can understand these sorts of complaints, since stuff like outsourcing has put a lot of people out of work. But then couldn't you argue that people in countries with lower costs of living are affecting the salary of those in places which cost more? If company A is based in say, China and hires their programmers at a reasonable living wage for Beijing and company B is based in say, Silicon Valley and offers a living wage there, company A can release cheaper software for obvious reasons. If most companies in the US decide to use company A's software, are they affecting the salary of US programmers as an indirect result?

Seems like to some degree, you can make the same complaint about everything from Uber esque crowdsharing services to globalisation to hobbyist projects.

[criddell]

Market value?

There are lots of software development jobs that can be done remotely. A person living in San Francisco that wants $75,000 / year is competing with excellent developers from other countries with a cost of living an order of magnitude less. Get used to it. I don't think global competitive pressures are going to ease.

[iolothebard]

They tried that for 20 years, it never works (having been in Fortune 500 companies as a consultant, it's a fucking train wreck). By the time you handle all the layers, the different time zones, the different cultures, the different values/ethics, etc. It's not even a wash. Which is why H1b is so "needed". When they're on site, it's easier to get the work done.

[criddell]

We've had pretty good success with particular types of jobs.

Jobs like porting from one framework or language to another usually succeed because the original software acts as a complete specification.

Where I'm working now, we've spent quite a bit of time changing our processes to be more remote-friendly and it has been well worth it (we were inspired by Jason Fried a great deal).

[yeureka]

Market value takes into account all the dimensions of the job, including location and whether you need to be in the office or not.

The article doesn't mention price pressure from outsourcing, that is another issue.

What I am trying to say is that we shouldn't accept a salary bellow the average of what other people in the same situation are payed because that will hurt you and everybody else by bringing down the average.

[criddell]

> other people in the same situation

Not sure I agree with you, but "same situation" has to include developer productivity. The nature of averages means that 50% of the developer population should be paid no more than average.

But are you really that motivated by money? Have you never contributed to an open source project because you enjoy the work or want to contribute?

[drauh]

Welcome to Marxism 101. Why do you think business owners tend to be anti-union?

[frandroid]

I don't think most developer wages are not living wages.