[BogusIKnow]

If you follow electronic forums or photo forums, for many people it's common practice to order new electronic or photo toys and return them, with no intention to ever buy them. They boast how clever they are.

All the rest of us then receive "new" articles from Amazon that have been opened, played around and returned by these people.

Tell tale sign in the article:

"[..] said the majority of items he returned were high-value electronic items that had failed. He had chosen to cancel problematic purchases rather than wait for Amazon to simply exchange the item."

He had no intention to get an exchange, because he had no intention to ever buy those articles.

[CydeWeys]

I can count on one hand the number of online orders I've had to return in the past five years. Usually it's RMAing an electronic device that was DOA, or a product that looked iffy on the order page and ended up being complete junk. Now, to Amazon's detriment, there's a lot of things I don't even attempt to buy on it anymore because there's so much low quality junk being sold.

Who returns dozens of items in a year?! That's like the picky customer that no restaurant wants to have to deal with.

[joesmo]

"Who returns dozens of items in a year?! That's like the picky customer that no restaurant wants to have to deal with."

Someone that's doing tens of thousands of dollars of business with Amazon a year. You know, the most "valuable" customers Amazon seems to hate for giving them so much fucking money.

[lsaferite]

I spend in the 10's of thousands range with Amazon and I return at most a dozen items a year.

Based on the wording used in the article he was buying big ticket items and returning, not replacing, them. That always tosses a red flag.

[joesmo]

Based on my own experience and that of my family members, what you buy and return is irrelevant. The monetary value also seems irrelevant. My account was closed for returning around $100 worth of junk, mostly broken shoes and clothes that don't fit. A lot of shoes and clothes on Amazon are just cheap crap and break all the time, but they'll still close your account for returning too many of them. The point is, returning 10% or even 30% of the shit Amazon sells is not only reasonable, it's to be expected given the quality--or lack thereof--of products on Amazon, especially in certain categories. And even returning big ticket items happens all the time. I bought a 4k 40" monitor that was broken and multiple Roomba-like robots that all broke amongst other things.

There is just absolutely no excuse for what Amazon is doing here. If they want such a policy it should be public. Otherwise, they're just fucking over their customers arbitrarily. It's that simple. If people want to defend Amazon in this matter, that's fine, but let's be perfectly clear about the fact the customers have done nothing wrong by definition in all these cases. Amazon policy clearly does not state any limits on returns. In fact, the availability of a paid Prime membership whose only purpose (that's actually worth any money) is to allow for quick shipments and simple, quick returns would suggest that they have a policy that accepts returns.

For all intents and purposes, Amazon does not allow returns. If there is a chance you might be stuck with a shitty, defective product because Amazon refuses to follow its published policy, they might as well not even have such a policy since it's meaningless.

This company can't even follow its own written policies. It's clear they don't give a fuck about any of their customers. And yet we still trust these assholes with our computing infrastructure, digital goods, and worst of all money?

[CydeWeys]

Stop buying junk! How many times do you have to be bitten before you establish some kind of quality floor on your purchases? There's entire categories of products that I won't buy on Amazon because the odds of getting shit are too high. There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.

> Amazon policy clearly does not state any limits on returns.

Amazon is a private company. They are not required to do business with you. That's in their policy too. Returns are guaranteed; your continued ability to do business with them is not. Though why you keep going back to them after they keep selling you items of such inferior quality I can't discern.

[joesmo]

Sure, blame the victim.

As if I'm supposed to know that Amazon--or any other company--will throw a hissy-fit when I'm using their product according to their own rules. Now I have to be both a mind reader and fortune teller just to buy things online?

[raisedbyninjas]

The examples in the article showed people were returning 10-30% of their purchases. Servicing these customers is not sustainable for retailers. Return policies do vary by retailer, manufacturer and product . It is common to load up returns on a pallet and auction them to the reseller/flipper market around 75% off.

[joesmo]

Walmart has no problems with them. What you're essentially saying (I think) is that generic online retailers cannot handle the amount of returns they need to to stay in business so they need to get rid of customers to stay profitable. Seems spot on to me.

[raisedbyninjas]

Walmart is a retailer that does this. https://liquidations.walmart.com I don't know if they work on tracking returns by user, but they take a decent loss on returns. Without anonymous cash purchasers, it's easy for Amazon to filter out abusers.

[CydeWeys]

Retail stores do prohibit returns for people that abuse the returns process. You've never had a retail store ask for your driver's license to process a return? They're doing it to enter your information into their system, to determine if it's abuse.

[anexprogrammer]

It's a continuation of buying clothes on the high street for a night out, then returning for refund after.

Shops are entitled to refuse a sale, or ban a customer, so are Amazon.

Having said that 10% failure rate doesn;t seem impossible. I've certainly gone through phases where it seems everything I bought this month is cursed :)

[forgetsusername]

Yeah, it's hard for me to imagine buying a large TV, having it fail or arrive DOA, then, rather than getting a replacement, saying "give me my money back". Maybe once or twice.

I used to hang around Caraudioforum years ago, and it was a "thing" to buy cheap subwoofers from Walmart and experiment with them, like plugging them into an electrical outlet. Then return them, no questions asked. This is not new.

[CydeWeys]

Yeah. The only things I've ever returned and didn't want replacements for were cheap junk. I took a gamble on a $5 pair of touchscreen gloves, and of course they were worthless (didn't work at all, and weren't even that warm), and I got my money back.

For parts like electronics, I of course want a replacement. I've had to RMA a motherboard and a hard drive in two separate instances over the past decade. In both cases I really wanted the replacements to ship quickly, because I was waiting on them to finish a build!

[serenity_now]

If Amazon restocks returned items and sells them as new, I'd say Amazon is to blame for the situation that you depict.

I'm also not sure if that is legal in he EU.

[anexprogrammer]

They don't. They sell them via Amazon Warehouse as second hand, often in perfect condition but with opened packaging. Sometimes minor scratches etc. It can be a great way to buy some things.

If there's something missing or noticeable they'll tell you in the listing.

[tyingq]

40% or so of the items sold on Amazon are 3rd party sales, where the seller could potentially be re-selling returns as new items.

[anexprogrammer]

True.

I've learnt from experience to be very wary of 3rd party sales on Amazon. So much cheap crap. Never understood why Amazon cheapen their site with much of it!

[CydeWeys]

It's ruined the quality of the Amazon brand to me. I used to buy a lot more on Amazon than I do now. There's so much junk on there, a lot of it of such poor quality that it should never be sold at all, and then there's also a lot of counterfeits. God help you if you ever want to buy, say, a replacement phone or laptop battery, or charger.

[lsaferite]

I buy a lot on Amazon and I had a very odd experience the other day for the first time. I ordered a board game expansion and when I received it there was a sticker from Amazon Warehouse deals on it. I certainly didn't order that and the item was slightly damaged so I replaced it with a new item instead. But it was the first time they ever sent a AWD item instead of a new item.

[x1798DE]

I'm not sure I understand what the motivation is for doing this with electronics? To try them out? Who would want a camera that you can only use for like a week or so?

[CydeWeys]

That's plenty motivation. Who doesn't want to keep up with the latest hardware? You can figure out most of what there is to figure out about something after a week with it.

I don't do it myself because I consider it against my ethical code to buy something with the intent of returning it in order to effectively get a free rental, but I totally consider the appeal. Hell, I'd love to have a fancy telescope to play around with for free for a week.

[BogusIKnow]

Some want to play with new cameras, show that they have them, post to forums but don't have the money.

Others order 5 cameras and lenses, select one, and send 4 back to Amazon.

[mchahn]

> Others order 5 cameras and lenses, select one, and send 4 back to Amazon.

I have been tempted to do this. It makes deciding on a purchase very easy. Now that I've read this I will not do it. Maybe this is Amazon PR to discourage people like me.