Hacker News new | ask | show | jobs
by chris_wot 3740 days ago
Oracle is beginning to find they are in trouble. Here's a small example: I'm hearing from a fairly reliable source that quite a few large Australian banks are replacing Oracle (my source didn't say with what). They are citing the enormous cost of the licenses, along with difficulty getting adequate support without paying a fortune. My contact himself is in upper management of a large corporation and Oracle screwed him on licensing, forcing him to pay a huge amount of money from his budget that he badly needed to spend on other projects. This delayed these projects by about 3 months, and put a bit of pressure on the area of the business he oversaw. He's also investigating the best way of quietly getting rid of Oracle as fast as possible. That will take some time, but he's at the point of rejecting any new solutions that require Oracle products.

I'm not at all surprised. Medium sized businesses used to use Oracle due to perceived reliability and features, however there have been a number of things that are making them reconsider:

* A number have been shaken down by Oracle sales reps who threaten a license review and potentially stiff penalties and litigation if they find anything at all out of order - unless they purchase software they don't need.

* difficulty in getting support - Oracle are notorious for not responding in a timely fashion to tickets, and a willingness by the CSO to completely ignore serious security flaws.

I experienced this myself four years ago when my boss put me in charge of a clear Unicode bug in their OLEDB driver - the bug had been open for 2 years and by the time I left a year later Oracle had almost wilfully ignored everything we wrote, even ignoring a program we built in .NET that showed the problem. Throughout the ticket we dealt with something like 4 support people, each of whom didn't understand Unicode and who needed a basic backgrounder on how UTF8 works.

* license costs are ridiculous, and frankly not worth it.

* it can often be hard to find people who can troubleshoot performance issues. Even highly skilled people face a black box when they work on improving query performance as the CBO is largely a black box that can change from version to version. Without a clear explanation of how the CBO actually makes decisions it's often a bit of a crapshoot when tuning queries.

* Oracle DBAs are very expensive, compared to how much you can pay an equivalent skilled DBA who knows Postgres or even SQL Server.

* there are few features most medium sized businesses need that can't be done in Postgres.

4 comments

I work for a major bank and Oracle is on its way out here. Trouble is, when it's running your general ledger and is tightly coupled to your core banking operations, migration to another platform can be a decade-long process.
Yeah, but on the bright side once your excised Oracle and replaced it with something better Oracle won't be coming back any time soon :-)
Unfortunately I didn't say we're moving to something better cough SAP :(
My sympathies.
> * A number have been shaken down by Oracle sales reps who threaten a license review and potentially stiff penalties and litigation if they find anything at all out of order - unless they purchase software they don't need.

Woah. So essentially Oracle's "sales" reps behave like the mob. How have they gotten away with this for so long?

They also take a lot of executives to strip clubs.
Well, we know of at least one occasion:

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/matier-ross/article/Strip-club...

Do you know of any others?

> Oracle DBAs are very expensive, compared to how much you can pay an equivalent skilled DBA who knows Postgres or even SQL Server.

Note that sensible Oracle consultancies are openly offering similar support for Postgres. This can occasionally be useful ... assuming they can realistically supply that level of support e.g. when a PG fills its disk or various other disasters happen. (We've been testing our PG clusters at work with various test disasters and making sure we can recover from any of them with as little faff as possible.)

> it can often be hard to find people who can troubleshoot performance issues. Even highly skilled people face a black box when they work on improving query performance as the CBO is largely a black box that can change from version to version. Without a clear explanation of how the CBO actually makes decisions it's often a bit of a crapshoot when tuning queries.

This has not been my experience.

What part of parent has not been your experience ?

I have experience parent's woes and more. That includes having Oracle staff in house doing in-person knowledge transfer. Experience says that Oracle will not provide a qualified person if we call for one as well. Sourcing from their own consultant pool is also a black box crap-shoot.

We also involved Dell and their support team to provide feedback and second opinion on Oracle CBO, query optimization and overall needed knowledge to use their Toad for Oracle performance tools. They literally stopped short of saying: yeah, you need people smarter than us for that.

I still think Oracle is a great product, but it's only fit for large organizations with bottomless budgets. I think we spent something north of $100K on Oracle's E-learning and that was probably the cheapest item on the list.

> What part of parent has not been your experience ?

We have several people in house (I know of 6) who can troubleshoot performance issues. For them the CBO is not a black box and they can explain what is happening and why.

I know of a local consulting company that has several very good people that you can "order". Said consulting company also offers very good CBO courses/workshops.

Really? I have a book on CBO performance troubleshooting from the foremost expert and even he says that he can't fully understand why the CBO does the things it does.

I doubt your in house experts fully understand the Oracle CBO. They may claim they do, but unless they have access to material that isn't public they can't possibly be able to diagnose the CBO fully.

You realise there are over a thousand hidden database parameters, right?

> Really? I have a book on CBO performance troubleshooting from the foremost expert and even he says that he can't fully understand why the CBO does the things it does.

> I doubt your in house experts fully understand the Oracle CBO. They may claim they do, but unless they have access to material that isn't public they can't possibly be able to diagnose the CBO fully.

Maybe. Let me put it this way, so far they could explain all CBO decisions where we had performance issues.