[jmathes]

The most important thing you can do for your career is:

* Accept a job somewhere

* Get promoted (doesn't matter how)

* let yourself get hired away from your current company

Getting hired away from your current company is the only way to get a fair raise based on increased experience. Companies never give substantial raises to current employees.

[maxaf]

This simply isn't true. I received a >$30,000 raise at one of my previous employers after they realized that I was being grossly underpaid for the work I was doing. Granted, I had to bring my managers' attention to this, but they were understanding & did right by me.

[philovivero]

Your anecdote is the exception to the rule. I've been in the industry for 20 years and can affirm the rule: you don't get raises from your current employer. You get raises by changing employers.

[peteretep]

I have overseen 25-30% increases for developers as part of a normal salary review process as recognition that their experience at the current company had grown them in to more senior developers.

No negotiation, no threats to leave, they weren't aware until we gave them the cash.

[gnaritas]

Which while cool, is not the norm. Anecdotes don't counter that.

[over]

Yeah, but the claim was:

> Companies never give substantial raises to current employees.

and a single counterexample is enough to counter it.

[cname]

If you're being super pedantic, sure, but... as far as the typical developer/employee is concerned, it's not relevant.

[peteretep]

Not to mention there seem to be several counter-examples in this thread

[grogenaut]

Not true, I pointed it out to my employer and they were like "oh dang, can't loose you, you get that raise" after I had already gotten a 17% raise.

[meric]

I second his anecdote. Have received large raises twice, but had to negotiate hard for it, with offers from outside in hand.

[zaroth]

Ah, the outside offer is an absolute game changer, which IMO puts it in the same league as actually changing jobs. Often you have to show that you are willing and able to leave for a much better salary to actually get the much better salary.

If you are just internally lobbying for a salary increase at your existing employer, regardless of how successful you may be, how much revenue you are bringing in, etc. I would say at the vast majority of companies you will not see nearly the same raise as either presenting a compelling outside offer, or actually taking an outside offer.

Another way of thinking of it is that a company cannot pay their employees an arbitrary amount, it has to be justified up the chain, and usually that justification is based on "grades" or "scales" of some kind or another. Most of these scales will include a fixed range for annual raises. By bringing an outside offer, you are providing the necessary documentation that your manager, HR, all the way up the chain is required to actually sign off on the raise. The outside offer means no one is sticking their neck out to justify an out-of-spec raise, or claim someone was being previously underpaid, it's just a simple equation -- the employee has an offer, and the company can make a counter-offer or not.

Of course the trick is if they decline to counter, or counter low, you have to consider if you then leave, or stay? You also probably can't come back year after year with new outside offers, it's a trick you can only turn to so often.

[a3n]

My opinion only, but if I had to bring an outside offer to get an inside raise, I'd take the offer. "We'll pay everyone what we can get away with, except the few who we need for the moment that make a stink." But then, I make too big a deal about personal relationships, and I forget that it's just bidness.

That said, I did get a raise once with an outside offer. But I left just inside a year later.

[zaroth]

I agree and it can be personally very distressing when you know you are delivering tremendous value and are not getting nearly the financial reward for the value you bring.... and yet can't seem to convince the bosses to put up!

That's why I look at it now as a system that just needs the outside data point in order to properly process the request. It's not a person holding back the raise, more often the process which the outside offer fixes.

If there was such a thing as an "employee appraisal" service maybe you could do it without actually going to interview, which would be pretty cool!

[TenOhms]

Pretty much my experience too. My dad worked at one job for nearly 25 years of his life and I learned a couple years ago that I already make over twice what he did by the time he retired.

My dad was a little like Al Bundy though, he never really sought to improve himself like I do constantly and I'm sure almost everyone here does too.

I think the industry still has a lot of managers who think in terms of running a shoe store with employees that are improving themselves at a rapid pace.

[tamana]

Al Bundy invented a shoe with a built-in sock.

[rbritton]

A previous employer of mine actually had a policy of never matching offers from other employers. I'm no longer there.

[twistedpair]

Depends who you are. I've always been ranked in the top tier of employees wherever I've worked, and worked my ass off to make myself indispensable. I've gotten multiple 15-20% raises, and even 30% bonuses without having to jump ship. Make sure you work on visible projects (front office, not back office), and that your managers are fearful of losing you because you're crucial.

[novocaine]

Yep, if it's technical work that requires a large amount of learning and investment in employees, the company will typically move mountains to keep you if you are good.

[biot]

I've experienced the same, but it doesn't mean the general rule is untrue. More specifically, if you are making market salary then the greatest raise will come from switching companies. If that's not true and your current employer will give you a substantial increase, then by definition you are not making market salary; the raise simply corrects your salary to the level they would have paid for a person of your experience.

[xscape321]

Also had the same exact bump in salary while working for a media company after my managers manager realized my pay grade. However I do agree this is the exception to the rule.

[nojvek]

Mind sharing what company this is? I'm 100% sure if I leave to go somewhere else and come back, I'll still make a lot more than sticking around. This is the unfortunate reality.

[maxaf]

That was at MLB Advanced Media. Looking back I think MLBAM was the most solid employer I'd ever worked for.

[owenconti]

Not true at all. You just need to find a company that values you and your work.

Our company intentionally hires juniors so that we can groom them as they grow. I was one of those juniors < 5 years ago and I've increased my salary > 100%.

[dclowd9901]

You can't just dismiss their experience based on your experience. I, for one, have also found it to be very true, and I think most people would agree (insofar as it seems to be a bit of a meme).

[timv]

The OP said Getting hired away from your current company is the _only_ way to get a fair raise (emphasis mine)

A single counter example is sufficient evidence to disprove such a universal claim.

[Joeri]

Definitely not true, i have doubled my salary at my current employer through a combination of negotiation and normal pay raises. I never explicitly threatened to walk out, but i did point out when i was substantially below market rate, and that was enough.

I do think that overall switching employers makes it easier to get a raise, because a current employer is more likely to know your true market rate making it harder to convince them to pay you above that, or even at that rate (with them figuring you won't leave for a small difference).

You do have to be careful not to become a 'job hopper'. When i see a resume where somebody never stayed somewhere more than 18 months i'll figure we won't be any different and am less inclined to give a thumbs up to HR if that person needs a sizeable training investment from my part.

[b34r]

100% agree with you. I've been able to get 30-40% raises YoY by job hopping roughly every 1.5 years. It's enough time to get experience somewhere, but not enough to become complacent. YMMV

[copperx]

Do you move every 1.5 years? that must be fun ...

[b34r]

Actually I've moved every year for the last 9 years. Definitely can get tiring. The last 2 were cross-country!

[SunShiranui]

Didn't that hurt your social relationships somewhat?

[b34r]

As normal, the true friends stay and the situational ones fall away.

[ido]

There are plenty of job markets that support getting a new job without moving.

[empath75]

I've gone from making 65k to 90k at the same company in the past two years. Though someone trying to poach me from another team in the company probably contributed to that.

[ThomaszKrueger]

Same here. Always moved away and up, usually in the 20% range. Thus the importance of always being working on a portable skill.

[blazespin]

yep. job hopping is the best way to increase pay. though top 10% can usually negotiate with current employer. everyone else should job hop.