[lefnire]

>learning materials have never been cheaper and self-taught people are the kings of tech

I've had English & PoliSci coworkers who couldn't find rewarding work in their degrees; so they self-taught tech and landed well-paying jobs in short order. Smart cats. I remember one venting about an English-degree colleague berating him for his privilege. Same degree; A made a choice, and B blames privilege. It's a general sentiment I see towards coders, like we were born with a laptop and capital.

[untog]

> I remember one venting about an English-degree colleague berating him for his privilege. Same degree; A made a choice, and B blames privilege.

Privilege is still involved, though. You need to have a lot of spare time in order to self-teach programming - that's very easy for people with comfortable incomes and/or the support of people with one. If you're drowning in student debt and taking on multiple part time jobs in order to make ends meet, self-teaching is never going to be able to get high enough on the priority list.

[stuxnet79]

See I rarely ever see anybody in HN make this observation which is very much true. You can easily tell that the average HN reader is unaware of the "spare time" privilege they may possess and how others are hamstrung by their circumstances.

[DickingAround]

Privilege: Yes. But it's still merit-based-pay when someone can do some work and someone can't do that work. Maybe that first person had everything going for them. Maybe they were groomed at the DNA level for this job. But they can get it done. And the second person can't. So it's still merit-based.

[mason240]

Everyone has spare time. I was working as pizza delivery driver while self learning PHP web programming. I had to give up having a social life for about year, but there was plenty of time.

[untog]

> Everyone has spare time

They really don't. Were you paying rent while working as a pizza delivery driver? Did you have any dependents to support? Any health conditions that you struggled to afford to treat without health insurance?

Some of these are intractable problems (if you have kids, life is busier) but the broad attitude of "opportunity is waiting for you if you choose to take it" is nonsense. It's entirely possible to be trapped in your current life situation. It wouldn't matter so much except that it is an absolutely tiny leap from that characterizing these people are lazy and not deserving of any help or pity.

[mason240]

Of course I was paying rent, what a ridiculous assertion.

You can all construct all kinds of fictional scenarios where someone can be literally occupied for all 168 hours of every week, but we both know that the overwhelming vast majority of people have 20 hours a week of time. I have two small kids now and work full time and still have 20 hours over the course of the course to week to do things. "Life is busier" just means there are other things you choose to prioritize higher.

[untog]

> Of course I was paying rent, what a ridiculous assertion.

A lot of people learn to code while living with the parents, I don't see what is ridiculous about me mentioning it.

> You can all construct all kinds of fictional scenarios

Look, these scenarios exist. It isn't the scenario you experienced, and I'm not saying it's some widespread epidemic that is taking over the country. But they absolutely exist. It's why things like scholarships exist for universities - to help give people opportunities they would not be able to reach otherwise. There are no scholarships for self-taught programming, so it is not a realistic option for everyone.

[sanderjd]

Was this in the last year or so? My sense is that only recently has the boom in bootcamps massively upped the level of self-taught/entry-level competition.