[djmill]

Okay, very interesting... I like the way you think. Luckily, I built various components and the entire CSS layer (which gets very complex) is really only understood by me... which is a nice monopoly from time to time. But yeah, if I leave I know I'll be forced to continue doing the same work but also forced to educate the entire team, etc. on my knowledge.

But you're right, I don't want to make anything personal, it's purely a business and career growth decision on my end. I love the company and what they stand for, but I don't like feeling like I'm being taken advantage of by being underpaid for my skill sets.

After working here for a while, I've noticed that the interviewees are lacking in skill sets and we can't seem to gain or retain top talent... which also leads me to think I have a leg-up on this as if I leave, they're screwed in certain areas.

[arielweisberg]

You might be surprised. Management can be very bad at economics and negotiation resulting in them paying in recruiting and on boarding costs more than what you asked for.

This is why it's key to always have an offer some place you are willing to work. Never bring up an offer some place you aren't willing to work.

That said you have to respect an employer's investment in hiring and on boarding. Switching jobs every year is a problem for employers. I think 2 years is a minimum and 4 years is what I target. I also hate interviewing.

After 4 years all bets are absolutely off and my tolerance for making less than what I could make elsewhere for equivalent work is close to zero.

[djmill]

Gotcha that makes sense. Part of me feels like I'm being greedy and part of me actually feels like I'm being taken advantage of in certain ways, so I'm personally struggling with whether or not to ask for a raise anyway... you make very good points here, thanks!

[arielweisberg]

Greed is good. You can be greedy you just have to be fair and respect your employer's time and investment. They are not entitled to your labor in perpetuity just because they hired you. You have to give them something or risk burning bridges and not developing a professional network.

Feeling like your being taken advantage is something I think you should never express. One HN poster put it very eloquently. At the end of the month when you are paid you and your employe are square. You don't owe them anything and they don't owe you anything. By continuing to work there you are agreeing to trade the next month for what they have promised to pay you and no more.

Stay away from talking about the past. You can't collect on perceived past debts. That's also why I don't like to make compensation about performance. It's up to my employer to decide whether the business value I deliver is worth what I cost. If you have an offer in hand this is what you cost. It's not ambiguous or nebulous like performance and that's why managers love to talk about performance. Don't indulge them.

Sure I have felt taken advantage of, but it's not really your employer. It's the game. It's crap and we all have to work within it to maximize the value we can realize. Your employer is doing it and so should you.

And don't think I haven't lost with that strategy before. I have worked for people who did not recognize the business value I provided. It's not a big deal. It happens. You move on and maybe they are right or maybe you are right. Maybe the next thing is better than what you had or maybe it isn't