[peterkelly]

You: "Hey, you know that 40-hour work week we have in order to give us enough time for rest and relaxation?"

Boss: "Yep. What about it?"

You: "So instead of getting enough sleep at night I've been using that time to take on lots of extra paid work for other companies. To make up for it, can you give me time off to sleep at work?"

Boss: ಠ_ಠ

[jnbiche]

> 40-hour work week

Where in the software industry are you working a 40-hour week? Outside of government, I've never heard of a programming job that consistently limits employees to 40-hour weeks.

[balabaster]

> I've never heard of a programming job that consistently limits employees to 40-hour weeks.

Limits? Perhaps not, but I've been in this industry for 25 years and in all the hundreds of projects I've completed, I've never had a single project where I was told I had to provide more than 40 hours of work per week for 40 hours pay. There have been many that I have voluntarily contributed more than that because I felt it was warranted or I needed to, but that was on me, not my employer. If you are putting yourself in a position where you feel obligated to provide time over and above what you are being paid for, then you don't truly value your time - and that's one commodity that you can never get back. If your boss doesn't respect that your work life balance, then you need to own the fact that you haven't gained their respect for your time and fix it, not blame or paint stereotypes of "the software industry."

In all industries there are shitty employers, bosses, employees, customers, vendors (and any other relationship endpoint I've forgotten) but in my experience, those relationships all boil down to respect. If you don't have the respect you require in the relationship, you need to own that and either gain that respect or walk away.

You can work anywhere in the software industry and only work a 40 hour week if you haul ass in those 40 hours to deliver what is expected and get the respect you require to only need to work those 40 hours.

If you're not able to deliver what is expected inside of those 40 hours then you need to ask yourself the hard questions - are you doing everything you can to deliver? If you truly are doing everything you can, then you need to set better expectations with your employer.

If the work really can't be completed in those 40 hours, you need to stand up and give more realistic estimates so that your employer can make better resource management decisions. If they're not willing to consider your professional judgment and fund the resources to do the work in the amount of time you're willing to give, then you need to get your resume out, because there are plenty of places and jobs for talented software developers where employer expectations are realistic and there is respect for your time.

[zoul]

In what universe / on what drugs is it possible to crank out more than eight hours of decent programming per day? Even eight hours a day would be too much for me.

[raverbashing]

Eight?

Try more like 4 (and that's a stretch)

[fecak]

I've recruited for a mix of startups and large companies over my career (all startups now), and I've had lots of clients that were working straight 40s with the occasional overtime. I've also had companies that wanted 60+ hours, but the 40 hour work week in software is not nearly as rare as people seem to think.

[staticelf]

I work in Sweden and usually works 40 hours per week, if I work more I can take it off any other day of my choice.

I have never worked at a job where they required me to work more than 40 hours, even if I've come across work cultures where people consistently worked more.

Funny thing is that we actually have a rest room where one can take a nap if you want to. I've never used it though.

[pc86]

Working overtime is the exception, not the rule. Maybe not in change-the-world Capitalization-as-a-Service SV, but in the majority of the places I've worked you are expecting to work your 8 hours a day and leave. Some even view a lot of overtime as a negative sign since you can't finish your full-time work in a full-time schedule.

[jnbiche]

Can you name the industry vertical, please? I'm genuinely curious.

By the way, working overtime is not viewed as a negative when quite literally everyone around you (mostly 20-year olds with no family) is working 60+ hours/week. Quite the opposite. And no, this was no start-up.

[pc86]

I've worked in healthcare, finance, logistics, and consulting in a technical capacity and healthcare and politics in a non-technical capacity. Both the non-tech jobs expected 60+ hours a week (politics considerably more). Only with the logistics programming job was I regularly asked to work past 5 or over a weekend.

[coderjames]

Aerospace. If I have to put in a 50 hour week, something's gone horribly wrong and its probably an "all hands on deck" situation.

[AndrewDucker]

Finance industry, UK. 35 hour weeks.

With spikes to more, of course, when vital. But only when there's a regulatory deadline, or something has gone seriously wrong.

[forgetsusername]

>With spikes to more, of course, when vital

Not doubting your situation, but pretty much every job I've had has told me, "40 hours, unless it's vital!", followed by much apparently "vital" work.

That said, I can't believe the OP isn't trolling. Asking for a nap at work because you're taking on too much extra work after-hours?

[jnbiche]

> Not doubting your situation, but pretty much every job I've had has told me, "40 hours, unless it's vital!", followed by much apparently "vital" work.

Thank you, I was beginning to think there was a gigantic industry conspiracy against me and my friends, while the rest of you are off sipping martinis at 5 p.m.

That said, I can readily believe the 40/hour week situation is different in Europe. However, on average, European developers do get paid significantly less than N. American developers, so it's not like everything is totally equal here.

[bnastic]

Software developers across banks in London are well paid. Consultants even more so. 40 hours or is normal, it's not an exception. (Source: been doing it for many years, at many banks)

[jnbiche]

I'm intrigued, particularly since the finance industry in the US has given me the (uninformed) impression that extreme overtime is routine. But maybe that's among traders more than back office developers or quants.

[jasonkester]

You get what you negotiate for yourself. I've worked something like four weeks of more than 40 hours in the last ten years.

My last gig I averaged around 36 hours/week for the first few years, then dropped down to four day weeks for the next couple years, bringing me down to 28-30 hour weeks most of the time.

I'm sure they would have been happy to have me bill more hours. But at the end of the day it's your choice. If you want to work sane hours, you certainly can.

(Edit to stave off the obvious followup: US citizen, US companies. Contracting/Consulting)

[83457]

At a company that makes money and treats their employees well?

[LukeB_UK]

Depends what country you live in. I'm in the UK and 40 hour or less weeks are extremely common.

[anexprogrammer]

Yep. I've had just two roles in a 25 year career that consistently wanted more:

A contract that charged by the hour, so I wasn't that reluctant. The novelty wore off after a few months though. My second development job had management who tried guilt tripping everyone into giving free overtime every day.

[dagw]

Every job I've ever had in Sweden was a (actual) 40-hour work week. Whenever I have to work much more than 40 hours I simply take the extra time off later as a matter of course.

[tartuffe78]

Midsize software development company in the midwest

[joshmanders]

I love Basecamp. I've grown very fond of their ideology of how to run a proper business that doesn't see their staff as slaves.

I am modeling the business I am building after them. As of right now I am technically the only employee, but I don't work more than 9 hours a day if I don't want to. I'm also thinking about doing their Summer Hours thing too.

[yitchelle]

I work on Automotive software in Germany, and my week is 40 hrs. Of course, it spikes on hot phases but these are quite rare.

What industry are you in that is over 40hrs?