[jerf]

I also still think GitS is one of the best hard-core sci-fi things ever put to video, but I've generally considered the (first) film to be the weakest bit. I still like it, in much the same way I actually like Star Trek: The Motion Picture, but I think people generally cut it a lot of slack if it's one of the only Anime things they've ever seen for being "weird" and "Japanese" and "artistic", when in fact I think it's generally just sort of klunky, slow, and weirdly paced.

This particularly comes out when you compare it to the TV series and the subsequent films, which are none of those things. Even when you might argue the film is trying to make a point, the TV series makes it much better. It also has contemplative moments and character pieces and shots that simply show city life and all of the things the movie has, but they are better integrated and paced much better.

YMMV of course. (There was a time when "the anime canon" was Ghost in the Shell (the movie) and Akira; there is still some residual Thou Shalt Not Criticize attitude about for those two, but not much anymore, I think. GitS does fare rather better 20 years on than Akira, which I believe modern consensus is that it is just one big mess, which I thought even when I saw it in 2001 or so. A landmark, yes, but still a mess.)

Highly, highly recommend the TV series. I'd suggest starting there (they are technically different continuities that just happen to have similar characters, so you will miss no story), and circling back around to the movie if you still want more.

[clevernickname]

The first film was directed by Mamoru Oshii. If you watch more of the films he's worked on, it stops seeming out of place in the GitS canon and starts feeling like another Oshii film.

>Oshii has stated his approach to directing is in direct contrast to what he perceives to be the Hollywood formula, i.e. he regards the visuals as the most important aspect, followed by the story and the characters come last. He also notes that his main motivation in making films is to "create worlds different from our own."

>Mamoru Oshii's films typically open with an action sequence. Thereafter, the film usually follows a much slower rhythm punctuated by several sequences of fast action...

>Oshii is especially noted for how he significantly strays from the source material his films are based on, notably in his adaptations of Urusei Yatsura, Patlabor, and Ghost in the Shell. In their original manga versions, these three titles exhibited a mood that was more along the lines of frantic slapstick comedy (Urusei Yatsura) or convivial dramedy (Patlabor, Ghost in the Shell). Oshii, in adapting the works created a slower, more dark atmosphere especially noticeable in Urusei Yatsura 2: Beautiful Dreamer and Patlabor 2: The Movie. For the Ghost in the Shell movie, Oshii elected to leave out the humor and character banter of Masamune Shirow's original manga.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mamoru_Oshii

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mamoru_Oshii_filmography

[aidenn0]

Interesting. There are some big names on that list, and all of the ones I have seen I didn't like (Including GitS), though It's been over 10 years since I've seen any of them, perhaps I'll give GitS a spin again.

[Retric]

GitS was very straightforward and understandable while introducing lot's of new concepts to many people. That's harder than you might think.

IMO, it suffers from the Seinfeld effect where you can't watch it in context, because you have seen so many derivative things.

PS: Even 2001 was late as it was released in 1995 when only around 40 million people world wide had been on the internet. http://royal.pingdom.com/2011/03/31/internet-1995/

[jerf]

"it suffers from the Seinfeld effect where you can't watch it in context, because you have seen so many derivative things."

Actually, I think it's the exact opposite. By no means do I consider myself an "otaku", but when I started counting up the things I've seen I got to over a couple dozen each of television series and movies before I stopped counting. That's nothing in some circles, but it's enough that I'm well over the "frisson" of watching something in a foreign language or with subtitles, and I can separate out that element from the underlying movie.

And as it happens I rewatched it again last year, and I'd still say it's klunky, slow, and weirdly paced. I don't think those criticisms are likely caused by the Seinfeld effect. The story of the movie is still quite good, and the story is why I'm serious about swinging back around to it if you want more because it is worth it, but if I'm going to recommend something to somebody for their first time out I'd still much more highly recommend the TV series.

[jacalata]

I don't think they were saying it introduced "foreignness" but rather the sci fi/political concepts it covers. It feels slow and clunky because none of those concepts need introducing any more, they could just go unmentioned and be assumed - that is, I think, the Seinfeld effect.

[Jd]

Do you feel the same way about Blade Runner? I'd put both in the same category. Philosophical digressions and epic musical interludes mixed in with violent cyborg action. Personally I like it but it definitely doesn't have the standard flow of your more normal series.

[jessaustin]

The music sections are great. I really feel like I'm living in this other world, if only for a minute. However the dubbing for the first movie was awful. Get the subtitles if you can.

[solotronics]

Similar experience here. My favorite parts of the movie are the scenes with music showing the city, like the scene on the river. Beautiful movie and thought provoking. I always wondered after if its possible for a distributed AI to hide on the net without the public being aware of it.

Given the great effort to build out the internet and datacenters its a fun conspiracy to wonder if we are serving a sentient AI on the net.

[pferde]

I tried watching it in the original Japanese, but I did not get very far. I just hate how obnoxiously loud and violently the language sounds in the movies.

To exaggerate a bit, a hypothetical scene which has one character confess love for another can in Japanese sound like a hateful declaration of war. Lot of shouting.

Edit: Since this comment seems to be getting downvotes, I should add what I thought was obvious: the above is just my opinion, that's how the movies in Japanese sound to me and my ears.

[arclyte]

The scene with 'Ghost City'... still sends shivers up my spine. Seeing it on the big screen for the first time in '95, I was blown away.

While it does give us some visual information about the birth of cyborgs (using a female body, causing the mental conflict of finding a cartoon robot 'sexy'), there aren't many movies that will take an almost four minute musical interlude showing random city scenes and the rain falling...

I think it ties in perfectly with Kusanagi's introspection, her pondering on exactly what she is, what the 'ghost' is, etc.

I don't think any of it is wholly original - from Neuromancer to Blade Runner, but it definitely stands on its own as a beautiful film.

[mkesper]

Make sure you watch the director's cut and not the cut-to-death nonsense.

[underbluewaters]

For me, both the film and the series are excellent but entirely separate works. The film perfectly captures Motoko's world through imagery and music. Her existence is all about isolation and introspection, punctuated by chaotic violence. You get a visceral impression of what it's like to be one of the first transhumans.

The series breaks from this pacing and overall impressionistic presentation. It has plenty of time for developing more characters and a complex story. The Motoko in GitS is so different that she's almost a different character, and while that sort of fits the narrative of the movie I don't think that was the intention. To be honest I got bored with some of more procedural episodes, and the long-running complex plot could be really confusing. The characterization of Batou and the Tachikomas is really interesting though, and the action sequences become much more compelling after you feel like you have more invested in the characters.

[aluhut]

The movie was my gate to anime. I was unable to take it seriously at all before. Had to literally be forced to watch the VHS tape.

It was the greatest experience in a movie since my most favorite one: Blade Runner.

Thats why I can't follow your judgment. For me the movie is art. It's slow moments are something I rarely see so perfectly made and fit to draw Cyberpunk. It drags me into the world making me think about the frame for a moment. The music never gets enough attention here but the combination is very artistic.

In the end, there will always be people who just find it boring. Like Blade Runner. I think, we have more then enough action in the world of moving pictures. Stopping for a moment and thinking about the picture itself won't hurt.

[digi_owl]

Thing about anime is that its a medium, not a genre.

Sadly most of it is pitched at young teens and kids (notice the amount of them set to a school background).

the likes of GITS and Akira are outliers, with many of them having been made back during the OVA (Original Video Anime, meaning anime released directly to video sale and rental) years.

[saalweachter]

Yeah, the nice thing about animation as a medium that makes it especially well suited to science fiction, fantasy, and any other surreal genre is that you only have to suspend your disbelief once -- that these animated characters are real -- and then you get all the special effects for free.

If Ghost in the Shell were live action, chances are the robots, the invisibility, the cybernetics, the cyberspace would look totally lame, because you'd have to suspend your disbelief for each of these effects individually. But once you suspend your disbelief for the medium, you can just sit back and enjoy.

[throw7]

Anime Movies tend to be weaker than their "TV series" counterpart. Like how books tend to be better than their movie version. I love Cowboy Bebop but the movie was underwhelming.