[starshadowx2]

Yeah, you're in the wrong here pretty obviously. you didn't "directly ask", you pretty much just shot down what they said and borderline insulted them.

Really, just reason it out. How many places just have a Vive devkit laying around? You'd specifically need to get one which means they're most likely working on a VR game or software. When you're working on something using new and innovative hardware you're going to check out all the options and competition to make sure you're using the best or most accessible.

I'd say you should take a step back and look over what you've said and consider if it really conveys your meaning well.

[VikingCoder]

I shot them down IF (the most important word in my post) their comparison of the consumer versions of the two most important VR releases is instead a comparison of the consumer version of the Vive, and the DKs of the Rift (or no Rift at all).

I agree, I could have worded my post directly as a question, and if I could edit it, I would.

I'm stunned that you're all allowing coalescence to sit at the table and IMPLY that the Oculus Rift CV1 makes him want to take it off, is not intuitive, and is not rewarding.

[starshadowx2]

> I shot them down...

Yeah, don't do that. It makes you seem like an asshole no matter the context.

> allowing coalescence

That's the thing about opinions. Anyone can have them and they change from person to person.

"it's the first headset that I've not wanted to take off."

You would've been much better off asking if they had tried the CV1 and what they liked/didn't like about it, rather than saying their opinion is uninteresting. It's good that you're starting to recognize that though.

[VikingCoder]

I AM in the wrong that I should have asked. I've explicitly admitted that my wording was wrong.

coalescence IS in the wrong that he impled that the Oculus Rift CV1 is a crappy product, without directly saying it.

If you could go ahead and recognize that second part, it would be nice.

[starshadowx2]

I recognize your opinion and understand what you're saying, but I feel like you're being antagonistic and trying to find a fault that doesn't exist.

@coalescence saying they like the Vive the most does not by default equal that they hate the CV1. You keep trying to say they're implying something whereas I really don't see it that way.

"I've not wanted to take off" can mean that they were engrossed and didn't want to leave, like when you're in a really good game and don't want to stop. It doesn't mean that they didn't like a hypothetical competitor right away, just that it maybe wasn't as spectacular.

In your other comment, this is what I'm talking about: "did it make you want to take it off?"

There was no implication that that was the situation, you've created this in your mind.

I'm going to end here, so reply if you like but as I said before, you should look over your comments and recognize that you're coming across as like an angry conspiracy theorist.

[VikingCoder]

Sorry again, this will be needlessly verbose... And I don't intend to sound antagonistic, I'm merely trying to explain my viewpoint, and don't have time to condense this. (I won't be offended if you don't read or respond, especially since you said you were going to end, and I'm posting a wall of text. The fault is mine, not yours.)

There are two main competitors, the Vive and Rift. And prior iterations of the Rift, the DK1 and DK2, have caused the "I want to take this off, because I'm motion sick!" problem.

That's widely known. No controversy in that, at all. (I haven't "created" that "conspiracy"... it's documented history that maybe you and other HN posters are unaware of.) The main remaining question is, "Has the Oculus Rift CV1 solved that better than the HTC Vive CV?"

The. Remaining question.

The history of how many iterations Oculus and other vendors have gone through is way, way less interesting. To me and many other people who have made, or are about to make, a $600 or $800 or $1400 (buy both!) purchasing decision.

Since the history of VR is littered with devices that have made the users want to take them off, it's no surprise that someone would have tried one, or two, or even a dozen of them (including the Oculus Rift DK1, and the Oculus Rift DK2), and then they tried the HTC Vive (Pre or CV), and they finally, amazingly, delightfully, did not have the "ohmygod I have to rip this off my head!" response. That's what most users of the Oculus Rift Crescent Bay or HTC Vive Pre reported when they first tried one or both - stunned delight that the products had finally become usable.

So, now someone has tried a bunch, and finally the HTC Vive. That person could easily report, "The HTC Vive (DK or Pre or CV) is the first headset that I've not wanted to take off."

The information content of that is very, very low. No surprise. And yes, they probably did "want to take off" all the previous ones - they were bad. I know I did.

Even if their experience includes the Oculus Rift DK1... and to a slightly lesser degree, the Oculus Rift DK2. Still very little information content in that statement.

BUT, if they've ALSO tried the Oculus Rift CV1 (or Crescent Bay, really), then they have jumped all the way to having an informed decison, on the two most important products on the market right now.

Then, the information content of their comparison leaps a great deal.

I should have asked. I completely acknowledge that. I should have been more polite. I completely acknowledge that.

I really want to see more and more reports from people who have tried both the Oculus Rift CV1, and the HTC Vive CV. I really don't care about the opinion of someone who has tried dozens of VR devices, and the Vive, if they haven't also tried the Rift CV1. Which is entirely plausible.

When someone reports that the Vive is the FIRST that gave them the "I don't want to take this off" experience, I really need to know if they've ALSO tried the Oculus Rift CV1, and if they ALSO got the "I don't want to take this off" experience from it. If they haven't tried the Rift CV1, then, frankly, their opinion is not informed enough to be interesting to me, or to anyone else about to decide between Oculus Rift CV1 and HTC Vive CV.

[starshadowx2]

Since you put a lot of effort into this post, and it's a normal discussion now I'll respond.

I haven't personally tried any VR sets other than Google Cardboard, but I am aware of the motion sickness problem. I have heard that the older Oculus kits were worse than the CV1 and Crescent Bay models. I feel like I remember reading that some new technology to do with the Vive's front camera fixes or at least helps with the motion sickness problem.

It would be great to hear more from @coalescence to see if they were talking about the motion sickness or not. I got the idea that they meant "not wanted to take off" like it was just really good and didn't want to put it down, not anything to do with not getting sick.

Sorry for getting into the argument above with you, I think we both just misunderstood each other and were focusing on and interpreting things differently.

[nilkn]

Just wanted to give you kudos and respect for this post. I wish I saw this sort of acknowledgment more frequently in internet debates.

I think most of us here understand that it's easy to sometimes enter a discussion with an overly antagonistic tone. It's a lot harder to recognize that mistake after-the-fact.