[Grishnakh]

Um, I already did: Bernie's the only candidate really against spying, and it's mainly young liberal people who like him. Everyone else, plus conservatives, loves all the other candidates, who are all in favor of spying. Hence, the people want to be spied on. If they didn't, they wouldn't be fans of these candidates.

[mynameisvlad]

You are going through so many logical fallacies I don't even know where to start. But that's not how logic works. None of that is how logic works.

[dragonwriter]

> Um, I already did: Bernie's the only candidate really against spying, and it's mainly young liberal people who like him.

Most of the exit polling breakouts I've seen have shown that (among Democratic primary/caucus participants) he does better among the young, among white voters, among people who have not participated in Democratic primaries/caucuses before, and among people who do not describe themselves as liberal, with Hillary doing better among the opposite groups.

[deelowe]

Read up on how democratic candidates are selected. Hillary is the establishment candidate. The people have nothing to do with her appointment (assuming she wins).

[AnimalMuppet]

Hillary is going to be... appointed? Um, no.

And yes, I know how democratic candidates are selected. The people are going to have plenty to do with it (that's what all those primary elections are about).

I agree that Hillary is the establishment candidate. That's pretty hard to argue with. But if she doesn't win, it will be because people didn't vote for her.

[deelowe]

So you should know then that the DNC doesn't use popular vote to decide it's candidates. The only reason Hillary is in the lead is because the only votes that have counted up until this point have been establishment votes.

You can't sit here and say "The public doesn't care. Look at Hillary" when Sanders is actually the popular candidate and he is a proponent of stronger privacy laws.

[AnimalMuppet]

I know that the DNC doesn't exclusively use the popular vote to decide its candidates, yes. There's the "superdelegates". They make up, what, 15% of the delegates? So, yes, they can swing the election if the primaries break 60/40. It's not the most democratic system, I'll admit. But the people are not locked out. Their voice will be heard, and can easily swamp the voice of the superdelegates.

[dragonwriter]

> You can't sit here and say "The public doesn't care. Look at Hillary" when Sanders is actually the popular candidate and he is a proponent of stronger privacy laws.

While Sanders has swung to near parity (slightly ahead in some) in national polls, he's finished just behind Hillary in both Iowa and Nevada caucuses (but well ahead in the NH primary). He's won slightly fewer votes overall, and the two candidates have about the same number of pledged delegates (I've seen different sources claiming 52/51 Hillary and an even 51/51 current split.) This is based on actual votes of actual voters, not skewed to establishment figures. Neither candidate is, either on the actual votes or the national polls, substantially more popular.

Hillary is far ahead in terms of informal commitments by unpledged delegates (superdelegates) who are mostly incumbent party officeholders, but those aren't votes, and while some media outlets report them as if they were the same as pledged delegates, they aren't. Superdelegates can and do switch allegiance over the course of the campaign, the same way as other public endorsements do.

[burkaman]

Hillary has 100,000 popular votes, and 52 democratically elected pledged delegates to Sanders' 51. The "establishment votes" are not cast until the convention.

[Grishnakh]

Oh please. Yes, Hillary is the establishment candidate, I'll agree, however there's no evidence yet that she's going to be "appointed". The only way that'll happen is if Bernie wins enough primaries/caucauses to get the Dem nomination, but the DNC gives it to Hillary anyway (probably because of the superdelegates), in a non-democratic process. From what I've read, this has never actually happened before; the Democratic candidates are selected by voters in primaries.