[zepto]

Thanks for the clarification - it does help.

However I still disagree with you on the point of standing against Apple for their 'evils'.

Apple is simply exercising their freedom. I agree that there may be better ways of doing things, but the failure of free software to produce these alternatives is nothing to do with Apple.

If anything, I'd say that standing 'against' Apple, works against the cause of producing a free alternative because it focuses people's attention on misplaced anger towards Apple, rather than on the constructive effort needed to build what is required.

I find it hard to see how someone reconciles a belief in freedom with an agenda that involves standing against Apple.

[mikegerwitz]

> However I still disagree with you on the point of standing against Apple for their 'evils'.

We'll have to agree to disagree here---I don't want it to seem like I'm showing disrespect toward your opinions.

> I find it hard to see how someone reconciles a belief in freedom with an agenda that involves standing against Apple.

Apple is exercising a _different_ kind of freedom---a broader set of freedoms, to which they are certainly entitled. Free software represents a small subset of those freedoms---the four freedoms which are designed to protect the users, not the developers.

It's important to educate others on both the free software community's philosophy and on the problems with Apple so that they can have that comparison, and so that they can avoid Apple's products if they decide that those issues matter to them. Apple has an advantage in the number of users---one we'll never have---so we have no choice but to reach out.

[zepto]

Thanks for being respectful - i appreciate it.

Since you've explained this so clearly, I guess I would pinpoint my disagreement at the assumption that the free software movement will never have the number of users that Apple will, and the idea that you have no choice.

Whilst the argument about types of freedom and the goal of free software seems sound, both of these other points seem to be relatively arbitrary decisions that have nothing to do with Apple, and everything to do with a sense of powerlessness and failure in free software.

I think it's sad because I don't see why either statement should be true, and I think believing them does far more to undermine the goal than to help it.