[iQuercus]

Dr. Steven Novella on brainwave entrainment, from 2008:

http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/brainwave-entra...

"That is generally where the science ends and the pseudoscience begins. A number of companies and individuals have then extrapolated from the phenomenon of entrainment to claim that altering the brain waves changes the actual functioning of the brain. There is no theoretical or empirical basis for this, however. Entrainment is a temporary effect on the synchronization of neuronal firing – it does not improve or increase brain functioning, it does not change the hardwiring, nor does it cure any neurological disorder. There is no compelling evidence for any effect beyond the period of entrainment itself."

I do like the "Cyberpunk" atmosphere of some of the music. But their other claims require some extraordinary evidence.

For example, does this impart any more benefit than me listening to my favorite working music whilst working? It doesn't seem to. But I haven't had a chance to sift through their supposed "180 studies"

[bonoboTP]

Yeah, I'd also like to see a study where they test this magic-AI-music against some generic 10 hours relax/focus music from Youtube (or the Machinarium or Age of Empires 2 soundtrack). Properly randomized and blinded etc.

I'd also like to know what it means that this is produced by an AI. What do they optimize for? I mean it would be really cool if they could do some reinforcement learning with real time EEG feedback and whatnot, but I think there is not much AI going on here. Perhaps even zero.

Also, the UI contains a lot of bullshit frills and wizardry, writing stuff like "generating your brainwave" and shiny animations (It's like how MSN messenger used to write "Loading your friend list..." and other recognizable and understandable things for half the time of its loading screen).

And then after one session it makes us click through a personal survey, where you have to click yes or no, for questions like "are you easily distracted", "do you have problems with concentrating", "do you have issues with personal organization" and similar stuff, do you have anxiety etc etc. It's a bit like they are trying to make you realize that "yeah, kinda, I think I could improve myself in these things, let's click yes". I'm not sure how they call this psychological manipulation technique, but I've read about it somewhere. Basically it's the same idea as some cashiers being instructed to ask you if your shopping was a pleasant experience. You want to be polite and go on with the script, but then you'll still identify with that "yes" answer.

Generally, the site rubs me the wrong way. It seems to be targeted at people who don't know much about science or AI, but like the brand and image of science and AI, as these are cool things nowadays. It also builds upon gamification and all these manipulative things.

[the4dpatrick]

> "I'm not sure how they call this psychological manipulation technique"

You could see this personal survey as a way for the site to make you doubt or question yourself subconsciously. For you to even read the question, you have to process that question introspectively. The more questions you answer, the more likely you'll find something you'll want to improve. Then miraculously this site is the silver bullet. Buy more sessions here [enter credit card info].

Another way you could see this product, the survey, and the upsell could be through the perspective of NLP (Neuro-linguistic programming). The two concepts to focus on would be pacing and leading. You listen to the relaxing ambient music and you become calm. (Pacing) Afterwards the survey pops up when you're in a more docile state. You answer these questions. Each of which is ever so slightly leading you to the conclusion that this product is the solution to the problems you've clicked "Yes" to.

[harryjo]

Are you saying that the site uses specially crafted music to trick you into believing that specially crafted music can modify your mind?

[V-2]

It's called "commitment and consistency" among Cialdini's six principles of influence (in "The Psychology of Persuasion", which I believe is sort of a classic)

[ahewett]

Hey, glad you like the music. :)

Regarding the Novella quote:

> [no evidence that] altering the brain waves changes the actual functioning of the brain

That post was from a while ago, so I'm not sure if he's updated his opinion, but there's plenty of evidence that changing brain waves affects the functioning of the brain. I feel I should have Giovanni respond to that specifically so I'll get him on here as soon as he's available.

> There is no compelling evidence for any effect beyond the period of entrainment itself.

There is evidence for it, but at any rate we're not claiming that. We're helping people sleep or relax while they listen, helping them focus while they listen.

> does this impart any more benefit than me listening to my favorite working music whilst working?

I'd be super interested to find out! In the study we did on our focus sessions, we compared very similar music - still generated by the AI actually. We have the unique ability to create a sham that sounds nearly identical to the experiment, due to the way we "disguise" the stimulation as vibrato, tremolo, normal instrumental vibrations, electronic LFOs, and so on. So we opted for that instead of letting them choose something from spotify, etc. I actually think we would have gotten a much greater result in that case, because the AI-generated music - although not containing "entraining" modulations - still obeyed rules designed to keep the music from being distracting (no lyrics or abrupt stops, volume consistency, avoiding certain frequency ranges (pitches), and so on). Even so, if you find your existing music to work, why switch? Give both a try, see what you think, base your decision on results. Or use both, depending on how you feel? Today I coded to Queen and then Brain.fm and then some Motown. I especially love video game soundtracks like Chrono Cross, WarcraftIII, Wipeout... Brain.fm is there if I need an extra boost.

I'd love to hear what you listen to? Kind of a hobby of mine to collect people's work music :)

[swe]

"There is evidence for it"

I would be super interested to see some evidence. Any peer reviewed journals would be fine

[ahewett]

Sure! I spent some time looking through my library. Here's some, but there are more. There's some I really wanted to show you but will take more time to get the actual reference. Sorry, if you're interested, please email us when all this craziness is over :) Also apologies about the lack of consistent formatting or alphabetizing :)

Oudiette, D., G. Santostasi, and K.A. Paller, Reinforcing rhythms in the sleeping brain with a computerized metronome. Neuron, 2013. 78(3): p. 413-5.

Santostasi, G., R. Malkani, B. Riedner, M. Bellesi, G. Tononi, K.A. Paller, et al., Phase-locked loop for precisely timed acoustic stimulation during sleep. J Neurosci Methods, 2016. 259: p. 101-14.

Tononi, G., B.A. Riedner, B.K. Hulse, F. Ferrarelli, and S. Sarasso, Enhancing sleep slow waves with natural stimuli. . Medica Mundi, 2010. 54(2): p. 73–79.

Joyce, M. and Siever, D., 2000. "Audio-Visual Entrainment (AVE) Program as a Treatment for Behavior Disorders in a School Setting." Journal of Neurotherapy. 4, 9-25.

Berg, K., and Siever, D., 2009. "A controlled comparison of audio-visual entrainment for treating Seasonal Affective Disorder." Journal of Neurotherapy 13.3 (2009): 166-175.

Ossebaard, H. C., 2000. "Stress reduction by technology? An experimental study into the effects of brainmachines on burnout and state anxiety." Appl Psychophysiol Biofeedback. 25, 93-101.

Huang TL1, Charyton C. 2008 A comprehensive review of the psychological effects of brainwave entrainment. Altern Ther Health Med. 2008 Sep-Oct;14(5):38-50.

R Olmstead Use of auditory and visual stimulation to improve cognitive abilities in learning-disabled children. Journal of Neurotherapy, 2005

Ong, J.L., J.C. Lo, N.I. Chee, i.G. Santostas, K.A. Paller, P.C. Zee, et al., Effecsts of Phase-Locked Acoustic Stimulation During a Nap On EEG Spectra and Declarative Memory Consolidation.

Ngo, H.V., T. Martinetz, J. Born, and M. Molle, Auditory closed-loop stimulation of the sleep slow oscillation enhances memory. Neuron, 2013. 78(3): p. 545-53.

With photic stimulation:

San Martini, P., Venturini, R., Zapponi, G. A. and Loizzo, A., 1979." Interaction between intermittent photic stimulation and auditory stimulation on the human EEG. Preliminary investigation through power spectral analysis." Neuropsychobiology. 5, 201-206.

Kumano, H., Horie, H., Kuboki, T., Suematsu, H., Sato, H., Yasushi, M., Kamei, T. and Masumura, S., 1997. "EEG-driven photic stimulation effect on plasma cortisol and beta-endorphin." Appl Psychophysiol Biofeedback. 22, 193-208.

Nomura, T., Higuchi, K., Yu, H., Sasaki, S., Kimura, S., Itoh, H., Taniguchi, M., Arakawa, T. and Kawai, K., 2006. "Slow-wave photic stimulation relieves patient discomfort during esophagogastroduodenoscopy." J Gastroenterol Hepatol. 21, 54-58.

Solomon, G. D., 1985. "Slow wave photic stimulation in the treatment of headache--a preliminary report." Headache. 25, 444-446.

Budzynski, T., Jordy, J., Budzynski, H., Tang, H. and Claypoole, K., 1999. "Academic Performance Enhancement with Photic Stimulation and EDR Feedback. Journal of Neurotherapy." 3, 11-21.

Patrick, G. J., 1996. "Improved neuronal regulation in ADHD: An application of fifteen sessions of photic-driven EEG neurotherapy." Journal of Neurotherapy. 1, 27-36.

[okc]

Neurological disorders are often related to periodicity of body rhythms and I think its generally accepted that resonance theory on internal oscillators are still in an infant stage, especially regarding their long term and cross cultural capability for variance. All the promises stated are possible. But, I'd also like to see a simple summary of the theory underpinning this music, even just defining the type of entrainment would make the product far more interesting and valuable. This coupled with the in-your-face-sales, promises and gimmicks whilst casually alluding to studies (with no reference for technical points) makes me get the feeling I'm being duped.