[alexashka]

Ok so your position boils down to 'why not?'

My answer is because I don't feel like it on that day. Sometimes I feel like practicing non-violence, other days I feel like practicing it and letting off some steam.

There is no inherent moral virtue in not picking up a stick when walking through a forest and slashing tall grass as you walk around.

Now if tall grass can express discontent similar to human discontent and you happily ignore it, then the issue is that you're likely to inflict human violence with no second thought.

THAT societies don't like. But don't get it twisted with empty moralizing - we want people to feel bad about violence to prevent violence to other humans within our tribe, that's it.

[noondip]

You've explained the inherent problem I believe to be facing humanity today - apathy and lack of empathy. We can't accept violence if we want to live in a free and peaceful society. All oppression has to eventually fall by the wayside and taking the opportunity to not torture many sentient animals is a good way to help.

> you can recognize that fantasizing about a world that's impossible given human nature is simply a waste of time.

I'm a vegan - I'm not fantasizing, I'm actually living in accordance with my beliefs.

[alexashka]

I see where you're coming from - it's an idealistic point of view.

We have violence, violence is bad, if we want peace, we need to get rid of it.

Makes sense.

Is that realistic on any level? No.

So either you can stick to idealistic notions and claim that the world is messed up because people are not like you, or you can recognize that fantasizing about a world that's impossible given human nature is simply a waste of time.

Fantasizing about a better world is a good coping strategy that I use myself. I just don't believe it to be anything but a coping strategy. At the end of the day, I need a strategy to change the real world I'm living in, to my liking.

Telling people 'why not be more like me?' is not a very good strategy :) I dare say you actually lack the nuanced understanding of the world to actually make it the way you want it.

Let's put 100 people of your choosing, the ones with least apathy and most empathy on the planet, on an island. How well are you going to do?

What if they're a bunch of non-apathetic, empathetic idiots? They light themselves on fire trying to make a campfire, they chop off their own fingers cutting up salad, but they are so empathetic towards each other.

A few days later, you're all dead.

The inherent problem is people are dumb - your current beliefs on what's wrong with people falls in the naive category. THAT is the problem - there's no lack of empathy, there's lack of intelligence. Lack of empathy is mostly short sightedness - most people don't think of anything but themselves and their immediate family because they're dumb, not because they are apathetic, they don't have the capacity for much is all.