[okc]

>Here's a question to ponder: what are morals and these 'should's you describe meant for? For people to share common values so that we get along better, right?

Thats not really how morals are defined. That is just one oversimplified and fairly self serving definition of ethics.

But lets try this with your own view point: Try pondering the question you posed:

>what are morals and these 'should's you describe meant for?

Now since you believe common values help us get along, and you therefore believe that forms the basis of ethical decision, then your question needs to be:

"What common values do other people hold that may be different to mine?"

It may come as a shock to you, that there is whole world of people and even animals and insects, that don't share your views - that see the world through totally different eyes. If they don't contribute to your idea of a common value, does that make them worthless and irrelevant to the world, the world they live in.

By stomping on the cockroach (for no reason beyond what you like and don't like) - you are saying it has no value in your life, and therefore should not exist.

To be honest, this isn't about morality - its about having a basic respect for anything that lives. Why, given the chance, would you not have this respect?

(Edited: formatting)

[alexashka]

Ok let's be very clear about this - I stomp on a cockroach because I feel like it. I don't think and ponder that it should not exist anymore than I wonder if tea in a cup should not exist in the cup as I drink it.

I happen to have what you call 'basic respect' for living things, I find a dude snapping the neck of a rabbit 'icky'.

I see that as me having grown up in a city and never having to snap necks to make a meal that evening. If I end up living on a farm, I'm sure I'll quickly get used to snapping necks of chickens and rabbits no problem.

See, your whole argument boils down to 'why aren't you more like me? Isn't being like me better than being like you?'

That's one point of view, I'd much prefer other people be more like me as well, so that I can get along with them better etc. I just recognize that that's simply a self-serving preference.

[okc]

> See, your whole argument boils down to 'why aren't you more like me? Isn't being like me better than being like you?'

If you want to make that point, please support it with an explanation to why and how I have led you to believe that? because I genuinely don't follow your logic.

>Ok let's be very clear about this - I stomp on a cockroach because I feel like it.

And you call that respect?

That isn't what I call a basic respect for living things. Finding a rabbits neck breaking "icky", also isn't a basic respect. If you could provide a reason for killing, like a health one, I might start to understand.

Let me try another tack thats a bit more 'on topic'. What behavior would a cockroach have to exhibit before you treat it like a human?

(Edited: formatting.. again)

[alexashka]

When using vague terms such as 'basic respect' - the onus is on you to be very clear what you mean by it.

Basic as opposed to what, can you also define intermediate and advanced respects while you're at it?

When you introduce vague terminology, the last thing you should do is criticize the person trying to work through your lack of conciseness.

Ironically, it potentially shows lack of 'respect' for my time :)

[Retra]

>What behavior would a cockroach have to exhibit before you treat it like a human?

Human behavior. Awareness of social context. Learning, speech, and advanced decision-making and planning skills. Is that just a poorly-thought-out question?

Humans who lack these skills tend to get boxed up, put in cells, and treated like cattle, too.

[okc]

I'm trying to provoke some thought about how we ascribe value to living things (and trying to relate it to the views of the person I was responding to). I was also trying to keep the debate relevant to the original article. Does that make any more sense?

Its an interesting set of qualities you ascribe to being human. does lacking all these (or some) of these make you worth less as a human? does it make you a 'cockroach'?

Some cultures certainly treat people with learning difficulties worse than cattle. Others love, support and engage them - understanding the world through their eyes too.