[epimetheus]

>but at the end of the day they think they ought to have a better mate, and are fed up with their current one

I don't know if this is true across the board. I don't feel that way entirely, more along the lines of "I'm stuck in this situation; kids, a marriage where I get no real benefit, I just want to be free and do what I want and not have to bow to their whims."

I know several people, right now, that have been divorced for some time (5+ years, and in one case 10+ years) and don't even date or have interest in dating. Their motivations seem aligned more with mine than wanting a better mate - In fact, If I end up getting a divorce (we have agreed to try and work it out, again), I have no interest in dating again, at least not for a while.

FWIW, I'm 38, and the people I'm referencing are older than me, some as much as 12+ years older, so maybe it's an age thing.

[zxcvvcxz]

Maybe an age thing, hormones do die down I hear! But I doubt these people you're talking about (yourself included) are all celibate though.

> "I'm stuck in this situation; kids, a marriage where I get no real benefit, I just want to be free and do what I want and not have to bow to their whims."

Unless you're celibate, then this is equivalent to wanting to be with another mate, as that is what will happen. Not to discount the rationalizations, by all means freedom beats family for a lot of people. The latter is necessarily a sacrifice of the former.

[noselfrighteous]

No, that rings hollow to me. Humans are sophisticated enough to genuinely have other needs aside from primal mating urges. Self-actualization is a huge one and more than sufficient to be the primary motivator for someone seeking to leave a family/marriage situation.

[gohrt]

And yet, statistically, very few people have self-actualization urges beyond using them as a means to attract a mate and reproducing.

[noselfrighteous]

You say statistically but you don't have any references to support that statement. My anecdotal experience says otherwise.

[ionised]

Few, not zero.

[epimetheus]

>Unless you're celibate

Pretty much, rough marriage, sex with each other isn't something they want even if you do. Needless to say, more than 12 months go by between 'action.'

Right now we are together for finances and the kiddo. But I still have to deal with all of the negatives. I might hook up with others once everything is normal, but really the primary motivator isn't sex or a better mate, it's just freedom to better my career and myself. Right now it's all about her career and me dealing with the kid.

[aussieindian]

Focus on your happiness mate and rest will fall together.

Suddenly you will become desirable once you do that and get rid of bad habits like needy behavior.

I would suggest focus on health as well and do some lifting and read the book "No more Mr Nice Guy" by Robert Glover and look for references on the web.

[cgriswald]

I was in a similar situation to the GP. Desirability and bad habits are not the issues. You're blaming the victim.

You can't compete against someone else's selfishness. You will lose every time. The only thing to do is to walk away, but in the context of a marriage, it's not easy to do.

My ex is still indescribably selfish five years later. She still wants to appear to be a good mother at the expense of actually being a good mother. She still tries to sacrifice my career and passions so that she can suit her whims. She tries to push our daughter on me during her custody period all the time (after fighting for more custody and costing us both $$$). And she still blames me, through a series of seriously twisted thoughts, for the dissolution of our marriage.

During the marriage, surviving her selfishness was the only thing possible. It wasn't that I wasn't focusing on my health and happiness. It was that those things were being taken from me more quickly than I could generate them. And I had to protect my child's psyche from her as well.

I don't think anyone would describe me as a "nice guy". I have a very low tolerance for bullshit and have no problems saying exactly how I feel or saying no. But I expect a partner in a relationship, not someone who I have to grab by the scruff of the neck in order to get them to not be a shitty person.

[Vraxx]

I don't mean this in a derogatory manner, mostly curious, as I've heard similar stories from extended family and have become rather concerned. Looking back, do you see any warning signs of a future marriage like the one you described? How long did you date before you got married/had your daughter? It seems strange that traits like you described could remain hidden until bursting out once you're "trapped" by marriage, but the tale you tell is not an incredibly uncommon one.

[cgriswald]

In the case of my ex-wife, it was fairly stealthy. My ex-wife was (and probably is) desperate for approval. So anyone she doesn't "have" in her circle of people who accept her, she will bend over backwards to please. Before I was her husband, I was one of those people. She wanted to make me happy so that I would make her my wife. However, once she has that approval, it ends. The closer you are to her, the less effort she will make. That seems backward to me.

I also dated another severely selfish woman. In that relationship it was much like the sibling poster mentions. There were high expectations of me, but even minor expectations of her resulted in her playing the victim or making lame nonsensical excuses. There was no reciprocity, zero respect, and no concern for the relationship as its own entity.

What both these women had in common was a desperation for approval and attention from others. This need was so large that I could not possibly fill it and I was ultimately made to feel that I was only a giver of attention and a tool to aid in the acquisition of more attention from strangers.

This type of thing is very obvious to me now, but when I met my ex-wife I was much younger and pretty clueless about women in general.

[epimetheus]

Though I'm not who you responded to, I'd like to say that I certainly did see warning signs. Sometimes we fought over it, sometimes it made me seem petty (she'd tell me all about her day, but when she asked it seemed more of a token, and she'd get that 10,000 yard stare and eventually tell me she didn't need that kind of detail - and I'm not a long talker). In one instance she left me abandoned at school (frozen door at school), she wouldn't risk the 2 mile or so drive and told me to walk instead (situations being reversed she would have probably left me and I'd have been ostracized for abandoning her). There were many others, but the signs were all there, I think I just ignored them hoping things would get better, etc.

[rayiner]

Your precise situation is a common theory for why women disproportionately initiate divorce.

[epimetheus]

Yeah, that makes sense, and can totally empathize with them for that. I love independent women though, and love a career oriented woman, so I can't complain. I had just hoped it was going to be equal, she'd consider the situation and help out a bit. It's not entirely her fault though, I add to the entropy of our marriage just as much, if not more.

[gohrt]

But, in aggregate, women, more so than men, understand that raising children is a significant and valuable career choice.

[rayiner]

There is a huge amount of social pressure on women to grin and pretend that to be the case. My wife and I work in the same profession and are similarly busy. But she gets 10x as much flak for the same things (blowing off parent-teacher conferences, etc) than I do.