[eastbayjake]

> Be a team player. Climb the ladder, pay your dues. It doesn't take as long as you think.

This attitude is why engineers get bullied and steamrolled into working for a small fraction of the value they create for their employers, leaving hundreds of thousands of dollars on the table over the course of their careers. Being a team player is for after you're on the team -- but before that happens it's not personal, it's business. Anyone who takes it personally and not as a purely business negotiation is not someone you should work for.

[vinceguidry]

I'd argue that it's a lack of professionalism that's the real problem. It's easy to negotiate yourself out of a perfectly good job offer if you don't know what you're doing. And lets be honest, most devs haven't the slightest clue how to do salary negotiations. Someone posted Patrick's guide, and that's a good start, but you need to learn a whole bunch of little lessons about the corporate world before you can really start to apply them effectively.

Until then, why not just work for market rate or just slightly below? Don't stress yourself out, there's no reason to and it'll hurt your bargaining position. 90% of it is done before you even get to the table anyway.

[ElComradio]

It doesn't matter how much value you create for your employer; it is how many other people around can create the same value for your employer.