[pc86]

> After more than 20 years as an electronics engineer, Pete Edwards reached the low six-figure pay level.

Where is it that late-career engineers are barely pulling in six figures? Don't get me wrong, it's a lot of money (3x mean personal income in the US, and ~1.75x mean HHI, give or take), but I'd expect most senior folks in any engineering field to be in the mid 100k range if not pushing 185ish.

> Time and again, he says, employers seem to lose interest after he answers a question that they ask early on: “What was your last salary?”

Your last salary has absolutely no bearing on what you are worth or what the market rate is for the position for which you're applying. You have absolutely nothing to gain by sharing a previous salary.

> A survey by AARP last year found that of job seekers between 45 and 70 years old who found work after a spell of unemployment, nearly half earned less than before.

I don't think this is that surprising, is it? If I make $100k and lose my job, often with little notice, I will take $80k. If I make $100k and leave of my own volition, it's unlikely I'll entertain anything below $110 or $115.

[maxsilver]

> Where is it that late-career engineers are barely pulling in six figures?

Almost everywhere in the Midwest, except Chicago perhaps.

Unless your remote working, low cost of living doesn't come without a big catch.

[joezydeco]

No, it's Chicago too, unless you're working on low-latency finance stuff.

[nicholasjarnold]

Untrue. I lived and worked as a software engineer in Chicago (downtown) for a number of years before moving westward. Most mid-career developers I knew there were comfortably in the 100's and only one worked at the CME ('finance stuff', in C++).

It boils down to simple economic rules. If you're good at developing software, there aren't a lot of people like you looking for a job and the market has a high demand for your skill then you are probably doing something wrong if you're not earning well into the 100's or higher (if that is what you're trying to optimize for).

[joezydeco]

Which area are you in? Your LinkedIn profile suggests financial/webdev work.

I've been doing embedded/firmware engineering in this area my entire career and, right now, 100K is typical for a senior position with very few positions available over 125K. The only way to go higher is to consult.

Perhaps it's the glut of ex-Moto/ATT/Lucent/Tellabs people floating around. I dunno.

[joezydeco]

{ If you're going to downvote me, at least provide some counterexamples! I'd love to send out some resumes... =) }

[jeffasinger]

I've seen companies willing to pay >100k in Chicago and relocate people there, for engineers with only ~4 years of experience.

[lastofus]

6 figures is the exception, but it's far from impossible in Milwaukee and Madison writing code.

[penfro]

I'm in Madison, approaching my 40s and making well into the six figures. I was just very persistent in looking and found a niche opportunity. Although I do worry about the central premise of the story being true--future raises becoming more difficult especially in the face of a layoff or recession.

[akgerber]

Who hires many people in tech in Milwaukee? I'm from there and don't know of anywhere that does much other than basic in-house line-of-business software— is it just banks and insurance companies?

[epmatsw]

Definitely possible in Madison. I'd assume Epic's fresh-out-of-school starting salary is nearly 6 figures now, if not already above it.

[Spooky23]

At 45 you become untouchable. Too old to be young, too young to be old. How many 50 year olds do you see in SV companies?

I knew a guy who was about 50, brilliant, brilliant engineer working for one of the big IT players. Well respected and trusted advisor to many customers. He got vaporized in some big restructuring that hit his division.

Because of non-compete and what he did, he was basically out of work for almost a year, and was stuck in career purgatory for a few years doing random contract work.

[geoelectric]

I see quite a few 50 year olds in larger, more established companies. Older people don't join startups because they can't afford to, as a general rule, but the rest of the age skew that exists is as much because the current round of technological skill set is rooted in the GUI and Internet advances of the 90s as much as anything. That ends up putting a soft bound on career length based on if you did your primary learning before or after that.

Anyone older cut their teeth on assembly or C, NetBIOS, and CLI and may or may not have stayed current afterwards. Consider that the industry was a lot "older" (just look at old pictures) until those technological shifts happened and shook out all the people that learned in the 60s or 70s.

If something like quantum computing or a parallel functional computing revolution or VR/augmented interfaces or anything else grossly disruptive to current development practices comes around, we're all going to be in the same boat: learn or die. Getting through that is not so much a factor of age as the circumstances around age and one's willingness to keep at it.

[cableshaft]

Oh, please bring the VR/augmented surfaces revolution. I'd happily switch over my career to that. As it is, my next hobby game is probably going to have VR support.

[RealityVoid]

> Anyone older cut their teeth on assembly or C, NetBIOS, and CLI and may or may not have stayed current afterwards.

Is there something wrong with these in that they are not useful anymore? I see a lot of jobs that require these, and I think they're still very relevant. Actually, I'm relatively young and love that stuff and work with that stuff... I'd love to work with someone who's been working with those for decades, experience really does show.

[geoelectric]

No, they're still useful but the people posting that they don't see older people in tech almost certainly aren't working in these technologies.

[Spooky23]

Absolutely. The point is, when they get RIFed, they are screwed.

IBM was particularly brutal about this stuff when they were eliminating people still on the pension plan.

[greggarious]

I don't understand - I thought non-competes were unenforceable in CA?

[ghaff]

Wasn't clear in the CA and the non-compete parts of that comment were connected.

However, in any case, the reality is that for small companies, for all but the most senior and/or desired employees (and even then), a potential non-compete issue just isn't worth dealing with. Doesn't matter whether it would ultimately lose in court, you're just not prepared to go there. That's the real issue with non-competes.

I've worked for a small firm and a candidate with even the most peripheral non-compete was just a non-starter.

[wcummings]

Especially if they prevent you from making a living.

[gaius]

Usually a non-compete would be void if you were laid off.

[Spooky23]

I've worked in NY and MA. They are very enforceable there.

[kasey_junk]

Depending on what "electronics engineer" means it is perfectly viable that he was at a low six figure number. The electrical engineering field generally in the US has been dramatically outsourced to Asia which has caused obvious downward price pressure.

[kevin_thibedeau]

I had to side step into firmware because of this. Amazing that they're starting the beat the drum for even more EEs because of a "shortage" when there are so many now that can't find employment in their field.

[aplusbi]

"Six-figure salary" encompasses everything from $100k to $999,999 (okay, that's a bit pedantic perhaps but you get what I mean). $185k is still low six-figures.

[thedufer]

"six-figure salary" implies a log scale, I would think. So 185k is about a quarter of the way from 100k to 1M. Still potentially "low", I suppose.

[thorin]

Could be in the uk. Tech jobs get sparse once you go over £60k outside London.

[collyw]

Europe, you will only be on 5 figures in most countries.

[TwiztidK]

I work in the engineering department of a large electrical utility company. Although no one here really talks about salary, based on what I am paid and our corporate promotion schedule I assume that most late career engineers are in the very low $100k range. The only people exceeding that would be the managers of the engineering department.

[quaffapint]

Around here in the mid-atlantic states I know that's the norm - and actually can be lower than that. It's not until you start managing teams do you get near the lower mid 100s.