[myztic]

We know far less about nutrition than we think we do. So if you know about risks and are careful about it, as far as I am concerned, there is nothing wrong with trying out various things. Regarding meat though, a lot of it is panic.

The problem is that it's very hard to conduct proper studies analysing this. 'Observational studies' are useless, because if I take a randomized group of meat-eaters versus vegans, of course the latter group will be significantly more healthy. Vegans are most likely more concerned about their health in general which means less smoking, less alcohol being consumed, healthier sleep, they buy higher quality food in general, due to lack of choice when out in public they cook more themselves (they won't stop at a fast food restaurant), et cetera ... and then there is the Placebo effect, which is very powerful and should not be under-estimated.

The scientific data is not as clear as one might think, and "nutritionists" in general are pseudo-scientists at their best since you can find a study for anything. If not with humans, then with mice, or maybe just some study with some cells. The same with internet sites by the way. And Atkins strictly speaking is not the same as the traditional Ketogenic Diet. Regarding books about nutrition for example, I happen to agree with this reviewer of "The China Study" (not the original one, you'll see) http://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/R3UR35AKTEYW43/ref...

If anyone wants to find serious information about nutrition, you should search for meta-studies, for example by the Cochrane Collaboration, and then you should read the abstract very carefully and not insert your wishful thinking into it.

[noondip]

There is a lot of damning evidence against eating animals and their products, yet none seems present against eating whole food, high-carb vegan. This much seems perfectly clear from scientific literature and has been for decades. The review you agree with has no citations, lacks credibility and makes dubious claims, like "Researchers still have trouble proving high cholesterol is associated with heart disease" which are patently false.

[myztic]

Well, I understand why the reviewer did not feel the need to make a scientific rebuttal out of a book review. It was not the reviewer who convinced me by the way, I had a look at this book myself. And the claims made compared to the studies cited to support those claims, it's fraudulent, I can't put it any other way.

I will not be able to convince you. Nutrition for many is such an integral part of who they are, that it is similar to criticising someone's religion and they are deep believers. If it works for you, I congratulate you (and I mean that, honestly). Nor do I want a debate in which everyone cites studies left and right that he has found on the internet, and then it is my job to go through dozens of them to find out exactly what they are saying and assess their methodological quality. I don't have the time right now, nor the motivation.

Let me just say: Science is hard, studying nutrition is very hard and especially regarding nutrition, there are so many things to think of and to take into account. And nutrition is also an individual thing, I doubt there is a one-size fits all. I was not the one speaking of truths where in reality we should be more careful about such claims.

[noondip]

You can't deny the fact certain foods, like processed meat, surely have a causal relationship to cancer, probably also heart disease and diabetes. As I've said before, the evidence against animal products and processed food in general is damning, but I've yet to find a single case study of someone getting fat off eating fruit, getting cancer from tofu, or becoming diabetic from eating too many vegetables.

[hueving]

>You can't deny the fact certain foods, like processed meat, surely have a causal relationship to cancer, probably also heart disease and diabetes

Based on what? Your gut feeling?

>getting cancer from tofu

There aren't case studies of people getting cancer from anything. There are studies of large population behavioral patterns and comparisons of cancer rates between patterns. So to check the tofu thing, you need people that consistently eat tofu compared to people that behave the same in other regards except for the tofu. That's very difficult because someone who eats tofu is generally going to have a significantly different diet from someone who doesn't.

[noondip]

https://www.iarc.fr/en/media-centre/pr/2015/pdfs/pr240_E.pdf is a good starting point.

[mingabunga]

Atkins is high protein. Keto is high fat.