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by Isn0gud 3803 days ago
What is so bad about systemd?
3 comments

If you're genuinely interested in some discussion pertaining to the answer to that question, use your favorite search engine to search HN for likely phrases and skim until you find some discussion with a significant volume of commentary.

Because of its political nature, this is a topic that's best not discussed unless you have some very specific questions or observations, and you are already very well informed about the merits and faults of both the systemd project and most of the other pieces of software that provide similar functionality. :)

> the systemd project and most of the other pieces of software that provide similar functionality

Agreed. Emphasis on pieces of software, plural.

There's basically three non-reasons to hate systemd which crop up the most: 1. Its lead author is a bit of an asshole, plus lingering resentment from Pulseaudio. 2. Systemd is not sysvinit, so some of the system administration people learned doesn't translate. 3. Systemd contains functionality that people don't think it should have (usually presented without any argumentation as to why it shouldn't incorporate those features, so it tends to come across as akin to saying that Firefox is bad because web browsers shouldn't have video players built in).

The main reason that does come up that's not really a non-reason (but, I should note, is hard for me to validate as a dispassionate neutral observer) is a fear that systemd is being rammed down users' throats against their wills, partly by distros deciding "there's no alternative" and partly by systemd incorporating ever more tools.

While I've definitely seen some of those thrown around, this is the best description of the situation I've personally read: http://uselessd.darknedgy.net/ProSystemdAntiSystemd/
It also is people holding onto the 1970s Unix system architecture and philosophy. Linux is Unix like and systemd is just a better modern system, but others philosophy on systems just won't allow them to support it.
I would not mind systemd, except that logind depends on systemd-init, and DEs are increasingly dependent on logind for various reasons.

For example, more recent versions of upower are just a wrapper around logind. Thus to have a laptop sleep when you close the lib, you need to replace your init process.

Do that in any way sound sane?

It has a common point with systemd : the lead is Lennart Poettering.

Sound on linux is a mess. And pulse audio is vastly blamed for it. Complex circonvoluted architecture that overpromised and under delivered..

The guy loves to brag about how he is the messiah of a problem and will fixt it, make galaxy like software that are unstable and leave a mess after his doing saying my job is done, let's work on another project where my genius is needed.

But, after utterly messing up once, notably at the (lack of) design level, he has been entrusted to no overpromise again and make the ultimate revolution for the init process. A lot of coders did not believe in his repentance for the mess in pulse audio : he may be as arrogant as linus torvalds he is as smart and a good coder as rasmus lerdorf.

The PID1 on linux is now known as a solar system of processes with nice chaotic trajectories and astronomers are seriously planning to use systemd alone as a nth body interaction simulator.. unexpected .

I switched from desktop Linux to Windows entirely because of Lennart Poettering. Audio was a complete disaster, as you mentioned. (This was only a few months ago.)
What was so wrong with Linux audio, if you don't mind?

I experience about zero problems. Maybe it's because I don't run pulseaudio.

PulseAudio seems to get by far the most development and support. I tried ALSA and couldn't get any sound at all, and it didn't seem to be very well integrated into my shell. I did get ALSA to work on my laptop, but there were still lots of tradeoffs.
Shell, as in Gnome-Shell? No surprises there if so.

That said, at its core Pulseaudio depends on ALSA for the hardware handling.

Frankly the only useful thing Pulseaudio does it handle inputs and outputs when dealing with multiple sound devices. But then so does JACK.

Everything else, from volume control (hello hearing damage with default settings) to bit rate mangling, is massively superfluous.