[lectrick]

1) The Tesla just surpassed the Leaf as the most popular electric car (yes, even with the price difference).

2) Electric car perks are everywhere and rarely mentioned. Free charging, way better parking, fielding questions from curious onlookers, more cargo space, no noise, no warmup, no oil changes, etc.)

3) In the winter months in areas of the world with real seasons (read: not San Francisco area), cabin heating will detract significantly from your range on a long 20 degree F drive. Talking 25% less maximum range or so. You can mitigate it somewhat by using seat heat instead but I've found that passengers REALLY do not want to go that route (or worse, they want BOTH lol).

[ctdonath]

Georgia just ended their EV subsidy. You could get $5000 tax credit on leasing a LEAF for 2 years. That amounted to a free car for two years, in an area where EVs are the perfect commuter car. As a result, Georgia fast developed a huge EV market - which disappeared the moment the tax credit ended.

No surprise LEAF sales just crashed below Tesla's.

[tigeba]

My experience is that the decrease during cold weather is more a function of the lowered performance of the battery than the result of the cabin heating. The battery draw at freeway speed is maybe 30kw. The baseline draw from the accessories in the vehicle ( radio, console ) and no heating/cooling/defroster is around 0.5kw. With the heat cranked up all the way and all the various heaters turned up to high the additional draw above baseline is 2-2.5kw.

[lectrick]

Of course I can't find the links now via Google, but I saw an announcement recently (multiple actually) about batteries in development that are not affected by cold temperatures AND have higher charge capacity AND speed than Li-Ion. I believe (guessing here) it involved aluminum (but not those charge-only-once aluminum-air batteries... something else).

If those batteries were released commercially within the next 5 years, it would be a game-changer

[tigeba]

I have just been scheduling a 100% charge overnight when its below freezing to compensate for the loss of battery efficiency. Normally I just charge to 80%. This is mostly just for peace of mind, my trip is about 20 miles each way.

[mhandley]

Why don't electric cars come with a tiny kerosene cabin heater as standard? A small heater would take up little space or weight, could be easily refueled at home so not need a detour to a petrol station, and be much more cost effective than adding extra batteries just to provide cabin heat. Sure, it's not zero-emission, but the efficiency of a kerosene heater can be pretty good (much better than an internal combustion engine) and it might go a long way to increase the usefulness on cold days.

[coldpie]

No one would be silly enough to cart around a tank of highly explosive liquid in their vehicle.

[pljns]

I look forward to hearing my grandkids saying this in disbelief, to which I respond, "No, really, we carted around a massive tank of highly flammable liquid. To make matters worse, we actually steered vehicles ourselves."

[lectrick]

While outputting toxic carbon monoxide directly into the breathing air of the vehicles following immediately behind

[mrfusion]

I like your thinking. See my other comment for what I think is a good idea for improving the heating situation. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10953036

[mrfusion]

Regarding the hearing issue. These cars already have an Ac. I was thinking they could run it in reverse as a heat pump to save energy on heating. That's how residential heat pumps work both as heaters and ac.

Id think the insulation on electric cars could also be drastically improved. No one ever put much thought into insulating a car since there's free heat from the engine.

[tigeba]

The LEAF has a heat pump and it works till about freezing at which point it switches over to an electric heater. The loss of efficiency due to cold weather really dwarfs the cost of heating/cooling in the vehicle.

[Shivetya]

1) the rich have more disposable income and there are quite a few techies with money to burn. The Leaf isn't that capable of a car. I will be watching GM to see if they can push the Bolt out in real numbers instead of compliance only.

2/3) and severe range drop in winter, driving with minimal heat because of the range loss, and more. Unless you are driving a Tesla which has that huge range buffer its not fun if you already are near you car's max range and cold weather sets in.

Give it five years and we might be in a cell phone phone like era, but it isn't decided still that all battery is how it will pan out. Batteries still suffer a horrible weight to KwH ratio that works against auto manufacturers trying to trim weight to increase range. Finally thirty minutes to recharge is fine if your home or going to be parked, otherwise its still a major issue.

[jseliger]

I will be watching GM to see if they can push the Bolt out in real numbers instead of compliance only.

GM says it isn't a compliance car: http://www.hybridcars.com/not-a-compliance-car-gm-says-2017-....

Which to me makes sense: It's obvious that the world is going to move to electric cars. The question is only one of timing.