[napoleond]

There is a fascinating video from Vice by a journalist embedded with some ISIS troops: https://news.vice.com/video/the-islamic-state-full-length

It clearly shows the group's violent rhetoric and uncompromising ideology, but also illustrates that ISIS is far more than a war machine. They are trying to create a nation, and that includes civic law enforcement and social services. For many people in the conquered regions, it represents more stability than whatever was there before. Of course, there are many others who are terrorized by ISIS (typically because they do not adhere to the correct brand of religion in the correct way) but it's important to remember that there is a fair-sized contingent of civilians on the ground who welcome ISIS.

[mikeash]

I heard an interview the other day from one of those civilians. Before ISIS, they had a dozen competing militias screwing around, and they never knew who was on top or which one they'd have to deal with at any particular moment or what they might want. With ISIS there's exactly one group in charge and they know exactly what that group wants. I don't know that this person welcomed ISIS, per se, but they saw it as a substantial improvement over what was before.

I think a lot of these people would prefer a strong, sane national government that isn't at war with everybody and lets people live their lives. But that doesn't seem to be an option, and ISIS is the best they've had recently.

[seivan]

Muslims (Sunni) will always welcome groups like ISIS because it offers what they want: Sharia laws, kuffr sex-slaves and etc.

Arab sunni muslims in Sinjar raped, sold and murdered their own non-muslim neighbours as soon as ISIS strolled into town. They weren't forced, they were greeting them with open arms evident by photos.

I don't like to entertain the notion about whitewashing ISIS as some sort of a sensible "muslim alternative", not that I'm accusing you to suggest that. I'm just noticing that pattern here more and more, some serious high level of naivety of people who've never experienced living in those areas and conditions.

Both Lee Kuan Yew and Pim Fortuyn are gone. Not much hope left.

[mikeash]

I don't think I've seen any of this whitewashing you describe. The farthest I've seen anyone go is along the lines of what I've said, that people welcome ISIS not because they're in any way good, but merely because ISIS's order is less bad than the chaos that existed before.

I think this is important to understand, because without that chaos ISIS wouldn't have had this fertile ground in which to grow. If Iraq and Syria hadn't been left to disintegrate, ISIS wouldn't have gone anywhere. Looking at the future, if and when ISIS is destroyed, it's essential to ensure that some form of order is established in these areas, or else we'll just be back at it again in a few more years.

[seivan]

From mainstream outlets I've seen everything from legitimizing ISIS as a(nother) Sunni state (the idea is a Sunni Iraq split is good though) to outright calling them freedom fighters.

It's increasing...

[AnAfrican]

GP was saying that stability was probably welcomed. Even the Syrian Government Army could be welcomed after one spends some time with a different militia taking over a place and collecting taxes and enforcing new rules EVERYDAY.

Even if some of those militias were better than the new stable regime.

The generalization about what Sunni Muslims want is quite gross.

[seivan]

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/12/07/muslims-and-...

Pretty sure killing/punishing apostates isn't frowned upon in Sunni world. You can dress it up either way you want.

[tlrobinson]

Those are some pretty cool Ray Bans the ISIS press officer is wearing...