[ghaff]

The problem is that people complain but many then go ahead and book the cheapest flight whether it's to save their own money or to comply with corporate travel policies. I'm not sure what "disruption" you have in mind that isn't available to existing carriers.

[mikeash]

This is the key. People complain about the airlines, but they're only giving their customers what the customers want. Sure, nobody says they'd rather be crammed into terrible seats and treated horribly to save $50, but that's how people behave, and that's all that counts.

Next time you're eating your terrible free pretzels with your knees in the back of the person before you, don't blame the airline, blame your fellow passengers. And yourself!

[izacus]

Why the heck would I blame myself or other customers when it's the company that's giving shitty service?!

If you want to make a capitalist argument then you also need to accept that customers also have the right to complain about the service they receive. It's part of the market. None of this "it's your own fault" bullshit when it's the airline that's installing the seats.

[mikeash]

Airlines offer better service if you pay for it. If you choose not to take advantage of that offer, you're telling the airline that you prefer to save money than have better service.

You have every right to complain, but complaining itself doesn't do anything. If you say X when you complain, but say Y when you pull out your wallet, airlines are naturally going to listen to Y much more than X.

I've lost count of how many times I've seen a conversation go like this:

"Airlines suck, I'm a tall guy and my knees are crammed into the seat back for the entire flight."

"Almost every airline these days offers an upgraded economy class with more legroom."

"Yeah, but it's too expensive!"

If you don't want to pay for it and would prefer to suffer (I'm a tall guy, and that's what I do too) then fine, but don't be surprised when the airlines listen to the signals you send with your money.

[ghaff]

Mind you, United has more than its share of customer service issues even for people who regularly get upgraded. But I fully agree with your basic point. There does seem to be some market for relatively modestly priced legroom upgrades but, for the most part, the market tends to bifurcate into cheapest flight or price doesn't really matter.

[mikeash]

Yeah, they don't have an option to pay $100 for better customer service, so that's a little more opaque. Still, different airlines do it differently, and it's rare not to have a choice of airline for your trip.

That's an interesting aspect of this trouble with United's service. They had a long period where their service was well below average. Did their passenger numbers suffer accordingly, or did everybody just put up with it?

The major US airlines all suck to some degree, but they suck differently, so if you care about that then go with the one you like best even if it costs more. If you don't, you're saying you don't actually care.

[ghaff]

I'm honestly not convinced that there are huge differences between the big legacy US carriers. Or, at any rate, your experience is just as much dictated by how busy their hubs are, whether your common routes are non-stop (as many of mine are with United), whether you're tending to fly in the winter in northern climates, etc.

I'm sure I would have absolutely no problem collecting a long litany of horror stories about every major US airline from among my Facebook friends with status.

So I go with United for size of route system and frequency of flights at my home airport and get enough miles to have status which does help. (Alternatively, for one shorter route where United doesn't have a non-stop, I usually fly JetBlue which IMO is one of the better bets in the absence of status.)

[jcranmer]

One major problem is that the comparison sites that people use to determine this stuff don't make it easy to figure out if you're saving $10 to get a massively more uncomfortable situation.

[mikeash]

That's effect, not cause. The customer's relentless quest for cheaper fares at all costs was around long before everybody was booking their flights online.

[ghaff]

See PeopleEXPRESS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_Express_Airlines_(1980s...

Which, as I recall, had SNL skits about its extreme cost-cutting at the time.