[dikdik]

I have a few friends that are civil engineers. "being technicians with the tools we're given" is exactly there job title. They aren't coming up with insane new concepts for bridges or new mixtures for concrete to improve roads, they're just doing what they are told with the tools they are given.

ie Design a road that is x feet long, has proper water drainage for the area, and meets safety standards for typical vehicle weight, etc, etc. Yes, SOME civil engineers are probably pushing the limits, most just design standard parts that fit into the required schematics.

[vinceguidry]

> They aren't coming up with insane new concepts for bridges or new mixtures for concrete to improve roads, they're just doing what they are told with the tools they are given.

Coming up with new concepts is the domain of the architect, which lies square in the middle of the engineering / craft spectrum.

Otherwise you are just reiterating the basic idea I tried to articulate using different words. You can't engineer or craft without tools. The difference is in the focus. Engineers, because they are building primarily for function, need to know the invariant rules of nature so they can design the most economical solution. They may not need or use them frequently, like your friends, but you need to know them to be an engineer.