[cryoshon]

What if the other side is actually rejecting factual reality, though? Are they still "not dumb"? What if facts have no hold on them whatsoever? Can we even have a productive conversation?

See: vaccine deniers/vaccine scheduling skeptics, climate change deniers, evolution deniers, etc.

[TeMPOraL]

The examples you provided have nothing to do with facts, actually. They're about trustworthiness of the fact sources.

Given all the shenanigans pharmaceutical companies pull, given how FDA itself is often reported in the news as unreliable or even corrupt, given that so many studies keep turning out to be unreliable - ask yourself, why do you believe you're right about vaccines? :).

[danieltillett]

Unreliable agents do not make something false. If you are lucky enough to have great grandparents go and ask them about the time before the polio vaccine. I asked mine and it was a nightmare.

[TeMPOraL]

Unfortunately, I'm not lucky enough.

I'm not defending anti-vaccination beliefs. All I'm saying is that with all the moral bankruptcy of our governments, corporations and journalists, it's no surprise movements like anti-vaccination started to appear. I believe the core issue has nothing to do with facts, or people being "dumb" or uneducated - that it's mostly about lack of trust in authorities. And so we won't solve it by throwing even more scientific papers at the antivaxx crowd.

[danieltillett]

I have to say I am not too sure why people become anti-vaxers, but I do agree with you that trying to convince them with science is not likely to succeed.

Anti-vax is worse than child abuse. If you don’t vaccinate your children you are not only putting them at risk (child abuse), but you are putting my children at risk through lowering the herd immunity. I have zero tolerance for crazy ideas that risk the health of my children.

The way we have tackled this problem in Australia is by tying the welfare system to vaccination - no vaccination, no child payments from the government. It is amazing how most anti-vaxers change their tune when it is going to cost them money.

[EdSharkey]

Dogged skepticism is a good thing. We need more critical thinkers asking questions.

I'm sad that there is a "deniers" meme meant to attach visions of the holocaust to those who choose not to go with the flow. I would totally blush if I said something so faux-outrageous to someone's face.

[emgoldstein]

Be careful in selecting your "other side" -- the examples you use to define it may have been brought by "your side."

I can't speak for the other two, but I'm guessing you're not thinking of Steve McIntyre. Eg, go here and have a productive conversation:

http://climateaudit.org/2016/01/05/update-of-model-observati...