[KirinDave]

Come move over to windows. I have. I'm not unhappy.

1. The Dev environment is basically superior to everyone else's now.

2. Microsoft is very open about the stats and rules they collect. Apple does many of the same things (don't believe me? Proxy your apple machine and use it for a day. Start typing in spotlight, too) and it's straightforward to disable them.

3. The hardware is nicer. Especially now that the rev0 bugs are mostly worked out.

4. The ecosystem is more open by design. You can bring in an iPhone or Android Phone without trouble. Heck, many of the interesting bits even run on OSX.

5. There is an MIT license over most of the core dev tools (some other projects use the Apache license) Microsoft has released, and their libraries and APIs. This means that unlike Oracle's java, the Mono project has a great deal of future proofing against these absurd lawsuits.

[TheRealDunkirk]

> 1. The Dev environment is basically superior to everyone else's now.

I've done "Windows" development for about half of my 20-year career, and PHP/Rails for the other half. (It's all mixed together; I'm talking about overall effort.) My job, for the past 2 years, has been 100% Visual Basic .NET. (Personal projects continue in Rails.) I'm sick to death with it, and eagerly await a side gig in Rails and OS X, which should lead to a massive side project in Java. I can't wait. I'll take development on OS X and Linux every day of the week and twice on Sunday over Windows and Visual Studio. Some days, like today, I don't know what I was thinking taking this job.

I guess it all comes down to personal preference, but today was a perfect example. I spent half the day fighting updating packages with NuGet, from one machine to another, and a sudden incompatibility with Azure database exports with my local version. Sure, there are problems with every dev environment, but it just seems so much MORE of a hassle with Visual Studio on Windows, since, for all their money and effort and marketing and the fact that they own the whole stack, the pain ought to be much LESS than the alternatives.

And I mostly HATE IntelliSense, always popping up and covering what I'm trying to type, and Visual Studio's stubborn way of screwing up my code with its auto-completion of IF statements. Yet I leave it on, for the 5% of the time I want to actually use it.

It also doesn't help that my Fortune 150 IT department has my development machine so locked down that the Azure worker simulator literally cannot get the permissions it needs to run. (So I do that work on my home PC.) And they run their own DNS system, which doesn't know that about half the internet exists. Oh, and the proxy has recently started killing my application for one user at random. No, these aren't Windows or Visual Studio's problems, but these SORTS of problems are frequently part of a "Windows development ecosystem" found in large companies that pay a lot of money to rubbish consultancies.

I know, I know. Horses for courses.

[KirinDave]

> I spent half the day fighting updating packages with NuGet, from one machine to another, and a sudden incompatibility with Azure database exports with my local version. Sure, there are problems with every dev environment, but it just seems so much MORE of a hassle with Visual Studio on Windows, since, for all their money and effort and marketing and the fact that they own the whole stack, the pain ought to be much LESS than the alternatives.

Well I mean... I could tell you my java/maven nightmare stories as well. Dependency hell is not something anyone gets to escape, even if you're using newer hotness like NPM or Go. Oh god, Go's dependency management is a trap.

> It also doesn't help that my Fortune 150 IT department has my development machine so locked down that the Azure worker simulator literally cannot get the permissions it needs to run.

There is no escape for us, except to burn our way out.

[agentultra]

> 1. The Dev environment is basically superior to everyone else's now.

That seems to be subjective. I like the debugger in Visual Studio but I much prefer emacs and Makefiles. Even if emacs is often slow to highlight large C files.

To each their own.

> 2. Microsoft is very open about the stats and rules they collect. Apple does many of the same things (don't believe me? Proxy your apple machine and use it for a day. Start typing in spotlight, too) and it's straightforward to disable them.

The article is fairly light on comments regarding retention policy.

> 3. The hardware is nicer. Especially now that the rev0 bugs are mostly worked out.

The surface book is intriguing to me due to having the built-in pen support. I love my Wacom but I hate lugging it around.

Otherwise, meh. Apple has the better hardware design that fits my preferences.

> 4. The ecosystem is more open by design. You can bring in an iPhone or Android Phone without trouble. Heck, many of the interesting bits even run on OSX.

I'm looking forward to seeing more of this. When I can hand off calls from my iPhone and get the same level of integration you get in the Apple ecosystem the deal will be sealed.

> 5. There is an MIT license over most of the core dev tools (some other projects use the Apache license) Microsoft has released, and their libraries and APIs. This means that unlike Oracle's java, the Mono project has a great deal of future proofing against these absurd lawsuits.

This is an interesting turn of events. It's also the new black it seems: Apple with Swift, CLR.

I mainly want it because hardware vendors support it. You most likely can't get better than OpenGL 4.1 until the next major update to OSX even if your hardware supports 4.5!

[KirinDave]

> That seems to be subjective. I like the debugger in Visual Studio but I much prefer emacs and Makefiles. Even if emacs is often slow to highlight large C files.

You can use makefiles. I use leiningen, without docker.

> Otherwise, meh. Apple has the better hardware design that fits my preferences.

Specifically referring to Surface. In general, Microsoft makes pretty good hardware. But uh, Apple's hardware isn't good in anything but a relative sense. Their build quality has been on the decline for a long time.

> I'm looking forward to seeing more of this. When I can hand off calls from my iPhone and get the same level of integration you get in the Apple ecosystem the deal will be sealed.

That's not something Apple will let happen, though. We both know that. Android though? Already works via Skype. I'm not sure I like that tech stack either but... it's not like google hangouts is exactly "good."

[Alphasite_]

Skype does not gracefully handover anymore. I used to be able to do it for a brief time but the feature just stopped working.

[mahyarm]

I don't see how these are very windows specific advantages, especially if you doing something platform agnostic like mono or python.