[vdaniuk]

>It is extremely rare that the cost to support a browser outweighs the economic importance of those using those browsers.

Citation please. Are you really sure this applies to modern front-end web app with reasonable complexity?

[jacquesm]

I don't need to 'cite' what I can see with my own eyes from the stats of my payment services provider. Browsers are very easily released, they take a very long time to die. This is one reason why I tend to keep things simple, this vastly reduces the amount of resources required to make something work on a lot of different platforms and browser combinations.

Of course if your web app relies on all kinds of sexy stuff then you're going to have to convince yourself that those people don't matter.

[vdaniuk]

>I don't need to 'cite' what I can see with my own eyes from the stats of my payment services provider.

Your original statement was broad and general, not qualified. Your anecdotal evidence is not sufficient to support this claim.

In the context of the discussion about supporting IE 8,9 and 10 and using your terminology flexbox (which IE 8-10 doesn't support) seems to be "all kinds of sexy stuff" and "not keeping things simple". Right, got it.

http://caniuse.com/#search=flexbox

[jacquesm]

Suit yourself. One thing I do know: if you are serious about commerce you can't afford to lose customers that you've spent a lot of money to acquire it tends to wreak havoc with your spreadsheets.

[chris_wot]

If I was running a train ticketing system or an old ATM, I guess I'd keep supporting OS/2.

If the cost of supporting old browsers was more than the profit you make, then that spreadsheet will show a different story.

[serge2k]

> I don't need to 'cite' what I can see with my own eyes from the stats of my payment services provider

You could be a liar, idiot, troll, or just really love IE. Why would anyone take your word for it.

[jacquesm]

> You could be a liar, idiot, troll, or just really love IE.

You omitted the possibility that I might be right, am not an idiot, am not prone to either lying or trolling and absolutely detest IE (and have not used windows for a really very long time).

> Why would anyone take your word for it.

Please don't. Ignore me and whatever I write here on the off chance that there is a grain of truth in it and that it will make you money.

Forgive me if I did not anticipate the Spanish inquisition demanding proof for something that to me simply makes good sense. Feel free to offend your users, to limit your products to function only with the latest browsers and to spend your marketing money to attract people that can then not use your product.

[vdaniuk]

As someone who has taught himself development after more than ten years in entrepreneurship, marketing, advertising and strategy, I find you arguments too simplistic, with no regard to strategic tradeoffs. A successful business needs to be able to "fire" some of its clients to gain competitive advantage or increase operational efficiency. And sometimes those clients are users with old browsers.

Branding a request for proofs to general, overarching statements as personal prosecution (Spanish inquisition, really?) is a sign of discourse grounded in ideology, not practical considerations.

[jacquesm]

This is a forum, not a scientific paper. If you want to have everything cited and backed up by independent review by peers and so on I suggest you communicate by paper only, this is a discussion forum and as such I'm not required to provide you or anybody else for that matter with whatever they demand. I'm not exactly on your payroll.

If you choose to interpret that as ideologically grounded discourse then I think that says a lot more about you than it does about me.

[pvelagal]

You are right. As much as people love to hate IE7/8 etc, they still help make a lot of money. (millions of $)

[vdaniuk]

This applies only for a diminishingly small amount of large corporations and is not applicable to absolute majority of HN startups/bootstraps/side projects.

[jacquesm]

Bootstrappers (when they are small) and side projects can ignore the smaller percentages because they are still validating their concepts. For side projects this goes even more because they are usually not commercial in nature.

Why would it have to be applicable to the 'absolute majority of HN startups/bootstraps/side projects' to be useful information?

[tothepixel]

I can speak to the fact that on the ecommerce site I work, only 1-2% of users are on older IE, but they account for many thousands of dollars of sales.

[pvelagal]

Well, i know of sites that still support IE7, IE8 and the revenues from those users are in millions.