[joeemison]

I just spent far too long reading both of those links, and I don't see anything there that contradicts anything Randi said in her post.

If someone is regularly and routinely attacked (and all the bullshit about "Randi can't code" / "Randi hasn't contributed" is just obnoxious), it's reasonable for them to be pissed off and get angry. That doesn't somehow negate the fact that they were badly mistreated.

In hindsight, it's telling that people making the above comments are posting links to longreads and not citing anything specific--just seems like more of the misogynistic campaign.

[Globrazu]

I think it's rather telling that this "exposé" Blogpost doesn't link to anything actually incriminating and tries to call someone a "rape apologist with neonazi friends" based on supposedly who they might have talked to once on Twitter, since there are links to RooshV who doesn't seem to have anything to do with the entire matter or FreeBSD in any way, but no links to what the accused supposedly did wrong. The links I posted indicate the moment these two people intersected, after Randi Harper was furious someone didn't like the idea of "safe spaces" and "Code of Conducts" and went after him, herself acting like a harasser on IRC and otherwise.

Not to say that this is not the only or first time Randi has behaved like this or done this to someone if you are aware of her larger Online presence, for instance she did it to Vivek Wadhwa: http://www.stopthegrbullies.com/2015/06/01/randi-harpers-bul...

She said this about Anne Rice, the 74 year old female author of The Vampire Chronicles / Interview With A Vampire: https://twitter.com/randileeharper/status/605650789348995073 https://twitter.com/randileeharper/status/605736216625938432 https://twitter.com/freebsdgirl/status/605636162653417472

She even did this to Open Source developers like Ted Neward (who she wanted to "drive out of the industry" over a single inappropriate comment) and pulled his supposed "target" Iris Classon into it, upon which she had to defend both herself and him from Randi: https://twitter.com/randileeharper/status/535151831027302400 http://archive.is/g2556 http://archive.is/T9Hvm http://archive.is/9GUle

Another Open Source developer, who was chairman of the IGDA Puerto Rico and part of several Open Source communities, and was subsequently forced to step down from the IGDA any Python Cuba she did it to was Roberto Rosario: https://twitter.com/siloraptor/status/624257540948393988 https://twitter.com/siloraptor/status/625866078925647872 https://twitter.com/siloraptor/status/588123915488223232

What exposing someone who pretends to lead an "Online Abuse Prevention Initiative" while being one of the biggest abusers has to do with a "misogynistic campaign" you'll have to explain.

It's very basic DARVO. It's a pattern of pathological behaviour with this person of attacking/going after someone and calling everyone that calls it out "bullies" or "harassers".

[joeemison]

Thanks for the more specific links. She's definitely a strong activist for what she believes, and can certainly dish it out. I don't think any of that necessarily negates bad things that have happened to her, nor does it validate the long list of bad behavior directed toward her after her post.

For me, I think it comes down to who's outnumbered. I'm willing to give her the overall benefit of the doubt because I've seen the misogyny consistently over the past fifteen years I've been in the industry. I can't judge how much PTSD I would have after dealing with the harassment I've read just around this post she's made.

[13thLetter]

No. Even if she has been victimized, that does not give her the right to engage in sustained harassment and blacklisting campaigns against third parties. If she is suffering from such terrible PTSD that she cannot keep herself from lashing out at undeserving victims, I feel for her but she needs psychiatric care, not enabling comments such as we are seeing on this post.

Incidentally, the original definition of the word "privilege" is "private law." I'll leave that to others to decide how that applies to granting one person the permission to engage in the same harassing behaviors she wants others punished for.

[joeemison]

I never said that it "gave her the right" to do anything. I said that it did not negate the bad things that happened to her. I said that we should not ignore the very serious and legitimate issues she raises because she's gotten very angry at people.

And here's the fundamental issue I see in all of these debates: the majority (here, young white males) tries to invalidate completely legitimate concerns because the person raising those legitimate concerns has done things that one can criticize.

You can see this rampantly in links that are provided to somehow negate her claim. "She's not a real contributor to FreeBSD, so her claims are invalid." "She gets angry at people, so her claims are invalid."

Look, Rodney King was not innocent of all crimes when he was badly beaten by the LAPD. Does that excuse those cops? Of course not. The only germane "counter-evidence" to Randi's post would be evidence that the FreeBSD has actually be incredibly and consistently welcoming to her. Because fundamentally her claim is that the FreeBSD community has been decidedly unwelcome to her. And yet all the "counter-arguments" here are repeated and painful reminders of how nasty and awful the "counter-arguers" are to her. It's mind-boggling.

[Globrazu]

What exactly "did people do to her"?

Vivek Wadhwa wrote a book that she didn't like and upon being "criticized" even offered a free copy of it, she declined and told him to go die in a fire.

Anne Rice called attention to an article about this and she was declared a "bully" and a "harasser".

Ted Neward never had any conversations with her when she asked for him to be "driven out of the industry" and Iris Classon pleaded to be left alone because Randi was trying to use her for her own purposes.

Roberto Rosario was put on a "list of harassers" by her because he followed the "wrong kind of people" on Twitter and got subsequently harassed and she tried to get him removed from speaking at conferences.

These people ARE HER VICTIMS, not the other way around. She initiates these things. Similar with the FreeBSD community, this is the first time Johannes Meixner has ever talked to her, his supposed wrongdoing previously was that he criticized "safe spaces" and "Code of Conducts" saying that he agrees with this: https://github.com/domgetter/NCoC

https://twitter.com/xmjEE/status/613083223086768128

Again she attacked him privately telling him to "go fuck himself", that he is a "piece of shit", a "privileged dumbass" and that he is supposedly "giving the project a bad name" while all he did was remaining calm and saying that he has different opinions: https://archive.is/9KGyX

He called this behaviour out after said Code of Conduct was implemented and the Foundation didn't choose to do anything in his favor, this is why he left: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.os.freebsd.advocacy/5404/

Randi is just trying to change cause and effect. Nobody was "beaten by the police" in this case and most of these people didn't even know of her existence before. SHE is the harasser/abuser in most of these situations, if you have any proof pointing out otherwise, please feel free to share.

[joeemison]

The proof is in your hostile attitude toward her.

Her post is about how she felt profoundly unwelcome in the FreeBSD community. Your response is not a counter-argument to her feeling unwelcome. As far as I can tell, your response is, "Randi did bad things." That's a non-sequitur. It's not a response to her feelings of being made to feel unwelcome.

If you had a germane response, I am guessing it would be, "Randi should feel unwelcome, because she is not a good person." If that's your response, you're not actually disagreeing with her. She said she felt unwelcome, you're basically saying, "Good. Yes. That's a good result."

[meesterdude]

> I feel for her but she needs psychiatric care

That's crossing the line of civility and you are actively making derogatory remarks of another HN member. who are you to judge her mental state? are you a doctor? Do you have a degree in psychology? No you don't.

You might read what happened and come to a different conclusion than what others have. That's fine. But you are making personal attacks with statements like that, and that has no place in this discussion. at all.

[13thLetter]

It's the commenter above me who was insinuating that someone was so mentally traumatized that they couldn't help but lash out at innocent parties; if you find that insinuation uncivil, perhaps you should direct your remarks in that commenter's direction, not mine.

[meesterdude]

I have zero problem with everything you've listed here that she's said and done. You link to these things like they are incriminating evidence; I just see someone pushing back against an onslaught on bullshit.

Your first example is literally a bad amazon book review. Did you see what she said?

> The author Vivek Wadhwa spends his time harassing women on twitter when they try to call him out on his approaches to feminism. He's not interested in inviting conversation, but instead thinks it's acceptable to intimidate and silence women from his book's twitter account when criticism is directed at his personal account. He's using feminism to profit, and not because he actually believes in empowering women. This is despicable behavior, and it's been confirmed by multiple women at this point.

> If you want to read about how to empower women, actually buy a book that has a woman listed first on the cover, at the very least. Even the highlighted review on his website is by a man. Men that are actually trying to help feminism don't profit off of it, financially or with cred. They empower women's voices and amplify them. While this may be a collection of contributions by women, Vivek's behavior online casts doubt on his intentions.

> No, thanks. I already know what it's like to be an empowered woman in tech, and to have men like Vivek Wadhwa speaking down to me.

Yeah she's REALLY going after someone with that kinda language. You know want that is? that's her OPINIONS. She's not attacking him, calling him names, trying to intimidate him.

At no point did she say he was fat, ugly, should go join ISIS, that she's rape his ass with a dildo at his next book signing, or leave a project he's been involved with for years.

She's attacking his behavior, not his personhood. That's called being mature, and civil.

That you had all these links ready to go... leads me to question your bias towards the matter.

But nothing you posted is of any actual merit or counterpoint to what she's said in her post.

[Globrazu]

"I have zero problem with everything you've listed here that she's said and done."

Then you might want to rethink your convictions regarding harassment and abuse, seeing as she's engaged in these things unrepentingly and repeatedly over time periods of years. As I've pointed out in the other comment above, none of these people had anything to do with her before she decided to attack them. Vivek Wadhwa among them least of all, he even offered her a copy of his book for free, which had many testimonials of "women in tech": https://twitter.com/randileeharper/status/522547854477246464

He was an avid activist of "getting more women into Tech" and wrote countless columns and the like (and his book in regards to it containing dozens of testimonials) before: http://blogs.wsj.com/accelerators/2014/01/22/vivek-wadhwa-st... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/vivek-wadhwa/women-in-tech_b_5... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/vivek-wadhwa/come-on-silicon-v...

He had to step back from arguing for that position because of the reaction of people like Randi to him: https://gigaom.com/2015/02/23/vivek-wadwha-steps-back-from-t...

[13thLetter]

"You link to these things like they are incriminating evidence; I just see someone pushing back against an onslaught on bullshit."

No. You are depersonalizing her actions as "pushing back" against some impersonal force. What she actually did was engage in sustained harassment, bullying, and blacklisting campaigns against specific individual human beings.

[meesterdude]

That's an interesting, albeit distorted, perspective of the events that transpired.

[4ad]

I downvoted you by mistake, please accept my apologies.

[adrienne]

Well, Anne Rice IS a bully, fwiw. She's well-known in the genre community for slinging her weight around when anyone criticizes her at all.